[net.religion] amen

madrid@auvax (Roslyn Madrid) (07/14/83)

Please, could someone tell me what "Amen" means?  I have the
Sunday-School concept of it meaning something like "Over and out",
but it seems that there must, theologically and liturgically
speaking, be quite a bit more to it than that.  What is the
Scriptural, traditional, etc. basis for using it?  Is it
found in only some Christian groups, or is using it (or its
functional equivalent) found elsewhere?  Are there groups which
do not use it?  What about its occurrence in literature?
 
                               R.
                               auvax!madrid

cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (07/15/83)

----- News saved at Fri, 15-Jul-83 14:58:17 CDT
Going back to my confirmation days, and paraphrasing Luther's
Small Catechism, "AMEN" basicly means "Yes, it shall be so".
It is an affirmation of faith.  Wait until Monday, and I will
post the quote from Luther.

Jeff Williams
BTL Napervile
ihnp4!cfiaime

liz@umcp-cs.UUCP (07/16/83)

"Amen" means "so be it" or "truth".  I just found it in a concordance
that points to a Hebrew word with the same pronunciation whose
meaning is what I gave.  This word also comes from another Hebrew
word which has to do with faithfulness and assurance.

It does tend to mean "over and out" these days which is kind of a
shame -- it tends to weaken the word.  Though it is also used to
express verbal support for what someone else has just said.

-- 
				-Liz Allen
				 ...!seismo!umcp-cs!liz (Usenet)
				 liz.umcp-cs@Udel-Relay (Arpanet)

smb@ulysses.UUCP (07/16/83)

"Amen" is derived from the equivalent Hebrew word (best transliterated as
"ah-MAIN" or "or-MAIN"), and is a standard feature of Jewish liturgy.  The
dictionary I have at home (Random House American College Dictionary) gives
the following:

	a-men, interj.  1.  it is so; so be it (used after a prayer,
	creed, or other formal statement).  --adv. 2.  verily, truly.
	--n. 3. an expression of concurrence or assent.  [from Hebrew].

A Hebrew-English dictionary I have translates the Hebrew word so "so be it".

Perhaps coincidentally, the Random House dictionary also has an entry
for "Amen", a minor Theban god with the head of a ram, symbolizing
fertility and life, later identified by the Egyptians with the sun god,
Amen-Ra, their principal deity.  The name is also spelled "Amon".  The
etymology given is "taken from Egyptian, explained as "the one who hides
his name"].  I don't know if there is any etymological connection
between the Hebrew and Egyptian words; any experts out there?

daemon@ucbvax.UUCP (07/17/83)

From: arens@UCBKIM (Yigal Arens)

Sorry to present a dissenting view again, but "amen" is one of those many
biblical words whose original meaning is a bit obscure.  I don't have any of
my books with me at the moment (not even a bible), so I'm writing this from
memory.

The explanations given in this newsgroup by ulysses!smb and by umcp-cs!liz
are accurate as far as the traditional meaning given to the word.  In the
bible, however, the word only appears at the end of psalms (sometimes
followed by the even more obscure "sella") and its meaning is not obvious
from the context.  Some believe that it may have originally been meant to
inform people reciting the verses about some musical aspects of it.

Yigal Arens
UC Berkeley (soon USC)

larry@grkermit.UUCP (Larry Kolodney) (07/18/83)

amen means "so be it"

-- 
Larry Kolodney #13 (I try harder)
(USENET)
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dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (07/18/83)

It is true that Amen comes from the Hebrew and basically means "so be it".
It is used throughout Jewish observance when one hears a blessing (e.g.,
when one hears a blessing that someone else says before eating food).
	"Amen" is an acrostic made up of the Hebrew letters A-M-N (aleph,
mem, nun), which stand for "G-d is a faithful king" (E-l Melech Ne-eman).

Incidentally, posting this article leads me to wonder about how to deal
with a particular religious problem. Judaism is *very* concerned about
the sanctity of holy names, and a piece of paper with G-d's name on it
(in any of several versions) should never be destroyed. Similarly, there
are substitute oral names (e.g., I would pronounce the version of the
name which the aleph in the above reference stands for as "Kel",
unless actually using it during prayers).
	Now, I wonder what the effect is of someone "writing" a holy
name in digital form? Talk about "destroying" is is kind of meaningless,
because the name only exists visually on a screen which is somewhat
ephemeral anyway. And it's going to be "copied" electronically across
the whole continent, and thousands of other people are going to have
the name "written" on their terminals and then will "destroy" it.
Those people with hardcopy terminals will definitely get it on paper
and then, in most cases, destroy it. And then, after two weeks,
the article will expire and be "destroyed" hundreds of times.
	Of course, this is only an English transliteration (or, in the case of
"G-d", a translation), but it still makes me wonder. Since I'm not sure,
I've written both the English and the Hebrew (transliteration) above
with hyphens.
	Does anyone have any comments on this?

Dave Sherman
Toronto

ecn-pc:ecn-ed:vu@pur-ee.UUCP (07/22/83)

Does anybody know when was "amen" first used, and by whom ?

ecn-pc:ecn-ed:vu@pur-ee.UUCP (07/22/83)

One thing I forgot: my pathname is ecn-pa:pur-ee!vu

Sorry.

Vu.