[net.religion] In the case of Rutis vs Wexelblat...

wex@ittvax.UUCP (Alan Wexelblat) (08/11/83)

The battle rages on (my original comments are indented on tab stop.  John
Rutis' replies are indented and prefixed by "*** "):

	I thought that the ways of God were unknowable.  Are 
	you claiming divine knowledge?

	*** Of course I am - the Bible is the revealed divine knowledge we could
	*** not find out in any other way.  You too can have divine knowledge.

I think Tim Maroney has done a superb job of showing just how badly you 
contradict your so-called "divine knowledge."

	*** My children were created in my image; they are human, as I am.  We
	*** were created in God's image to become God as He is.

This simply is a non-sequitor.  Your bilogical reproduction is in no way 
comparable to divine creation.  In fact, Christianity goes out of its way
to revile biological reproduction and to deny that it occurred in Jesus' case.

	*** God himself says there are thing He cannot do.  For one thing, 
	*** He cannot lie.  May I ask how you would create instant character?

Where does God say this?  Simply stating something doesn't make it so.  I have
no idea how I would create instant character.  I also have no idea how I would
create instant people.  Obviously, I'm not God.

	*** Have you felt the hand of God forcing you to be good lately?  

No.  All I've felt is a lot of invective from "God's servants" about what's
going to happen to me if I'm not "good."  Force does not need to be
physical; it can be implied.

	*** God does not personally punish evil, He lets the natural  
	*** consequences do that.

See Tim's article again for excellent examples of the falsehod of this 
statement.

	*** If God had forced man to keep it perfect, I'm sure you would be
	*** one of the loudest in complaining that He doesn't allow you any 
	*** freedom.

If God had forced man to keep the world perfect, I would have all the freedom
I want, regardless.  Why would I complain?

	*** If God was not allowing you to play any more, you wouldn't be here.

But I keep getting told how I'm not going to be allowed to play anymore after
I die.  I'm going to hell, dontchaknow?  And it's all because I'm being a 
bad boy now.

	*** God allows you to have this attitude doesn't He?  

Except he tells me that I'm damned if I don't "believe."

	*** God DOES live up to His own standards!

Yeah.  Sure.  Just like Tim pointed out.  Wholesale murder and all.

	*** Read the 10 commandments and imagine what the world would be like 
	*** if everyone voluntarily kept them all perfectly.

Yeah.  No Flood.  No Sodom and Gamorah (sp?).  No massacres of male children.
Boy, life would be a lot better if God kept his own commandments!

	*** Man has rejected God's government for 6000 years, soon it 
	*** will be forced on him.

It's wonderful how you can have such a vivid imagination.  Even the
Hebrew calendar goes back less than 5500 years, and Abraham was the first
to come to know God.  But what's 500 years, more or less?

	*** I hope to write some articles proving God's existance 
	*** using logic and reason.

Well, I wish you luck.  Kierkegaard couldn't do it, and he spent most of
his life trying.

All hail Discordia!
--Alan Wexelblat
decvax!ittvax!wex