donald@utcsrgv.UUCP (Don Chan) (08/25/83)
I also responded to Alan Wexelblat's argument for the existence of the Eternal Is (abbreviated "EI"), but since I was not honoured in his rebuttal, (ittvax.963) I assume my article didn't make it out. Anyway, I think Alan's rebuttal missed most of the points of his respondents, and contained many ill-defined concepts. Firstly, Alan calls his First Cause the EI instead of GOD This is just a semantic quibble. Although GOD is vaguely defined (logical positivists would say undefined!) it isn't restricted to the Judaeo-Christian deity. GOD is a usual term for a conscious Universal Creator, so I think the EI has the minimal set of attributes to qualify as a GOD. Alan seems to differentiate between events that are caused by cognition and events that are not (although he is not clear on the latter: the EI argument seems to assume that all events can be traced back to a primal cognition causing the first event, namely his EI). He should state whether he thinks there are events that have causes not traceable back to any cognition. Now, if he admits this, I can ask him why the creation of the universe can't be one of these events not traceable back to any cognition, thus eliminating the need for the EI. I can even ask him if cognition can come out of non-cognition, i.e. could life, and in particular human beings, evolve out of non-living non-cognitive matter? If he admits this then the EI is also no longer necessary. However, Alan does make clear that he thinks cognitive causes are themselves acausal. At one point it is stated that "Until you can justify putting human action *inside* the laws of physics, your argument doesn't hold water." This is basically a vitalist stance. That is, consciousness is somehow "special", and that there exist human desires and decisions that are not causally connected to the outside world. This viewpoint shows up again in Alan's tennis example (which is not as powerful as he claims). Basically it breaks down to "you can't predict my actions on the basis of the chemical reactions that constitute my living, so therefore my actions are outside of causality". The obvious fallacy in this is that it's true of everything! We can't analytically explain most of the events in life: e.g. flipping a coin, we can't tell why it landed heads instead of tails. However, we do say that given enough information and a physical model of the world, we COULD predict heads or tails (or would Alan deny this too?). In the same way, Alan says that since we do not have an analytic model of human cognition, there does not exist one! This is simply non sequitor and a denial of the basic assumption of science: that the universe may be explained in rational terms. Alan's belief that human cognition is acausal is based on faith. As far as I can see, all human actions have reasons (which may be quite complex, but that's different than saying they have NO reasons) But after all this, Alan still refuses to answer the question "why must there be a first cause?" There is no first integer in the set { ..., -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, ...}, and saying that there is won't make it so! Alan tries to bring quantum mechanics into the fray. I would caution against that because Q.M. is a rather complex and nonintuitive mathematical model of reality, and we should not depend on popular interpretations of Q.M.to support our pet beliefs. The he goes of into muddy waters: talking about things the EI being outside of space-time, and time versus meta-time. Unfortunately, we cannot even discuss hazy issues like this unless we're sure of the (dubious) meaning of such concepts. In short, let's not talk about things that we know little about (Q.M., "meta-time", etc). So, Alan's articles of faith are essentially 1) cognition escapes the normal chain of causality 2) the universe must have had a first cause 3) the first cause of (2) must be cognitive In my opinion, all three are highly questionable, and certainly not deducible a priori, so I must conclude that Alan is almost as bad the Christians that he castigates! (By the way Alan, have you ever read St. Augustine? His arguments mirror yours pretty closely) -- Don Chan, University of Toronto ARPAnet: utcsrgv!donald@UW-BEAVER UUCP: { linus ihnp4 floyd allegra uw-beaver ubc-vision cornell watmath hcr decwrl }!utcsrgv!donald -or- { linus decvax research duke cwruecmp }!utzoo!utcsrgv!donald