[net.religion] Centrality of the Incarnation

tld@ssc-vax.UUCP (Thomas L Davis) (02/02/84)

A turtle only makes progress by sticking his/her neck out, so
I am going to leap into the Creation Science discussion with
some observations of my own.

>From "The Book of Common Prayer", 1979, Seabury:

The Holy Scriptures (pp. 853-4)

Q. What are the Holy Scriptures?
A. The Holy Scriptures, commonly called the Bible, are the books
   of the Old and New Testaments; other books, called the
   Apocrypha, are often included in the Bible.

Q. What is the Old Testament?
A. The Old Testament consists of books written by the people of
   the Old Covenant, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to
   show God at work in nature and history.

Q. What is the New Testament?
A. The New Testament consists of books written by the people of
   the New Covenant, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to
   set forth the life and teachings of Jesus and to proclaim the
   Good News of the Kingdom for all people.

Q. What is the Apocrypha?
A. The Apocrypha is a collection of additional books written by
   the people of the Old Covenant, and used in the Christian
   Church.

Q. Why do we call the Holy Scriptures the Word of God?
A. We call them the Word of God because God inspired their human
   authors and because God still speaks to us through the Bible.

Q. How do we understand the meaning of the Bible?
A. We understand the meaning of the Bible by the help of the Holy
   Spirit, who guides the Church in the true inerpretation of the
   Scriptures.

Lambeth Conference of 1888
Resolution 11 (pg. 877-8)

That, in the opinion of this Conference, the following Articles
supply a basis on which approach may be by God's blessing made
toward Home Reunion:

(a) The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as
"containing all things necessary to salvation," and as being the
rule and ultimate standard of faith.

(b) The Apostle's Creed, as the Baptismal Symbol; and the Nicene
Creed; as the sufficient statement of the Christian faith.

(c) The two Sacraments ordained by Christ Himself -- Baptism and
the Supper of the Lord -- ministered with unfailing use of
Christ's words of Institution, and of the elements ordained by
Him.

(d) The Historic Episcopate, locally adapted in the methods of its
administration to the varying needs of the nations and peoples
called of God into the Unity of His Church.

<End BCP quotes.

>"Miracles", by C.S. Lewis, Macmillan, 1978

Chapter XIV The Grand Miracle (pg. 108)

The central miracle asserted by Christians is the Incarnation.
They say that God became Man. Every other miracle prepares for
this, or exhibits this, or results from this. Just as every
natural event is the manifestation at a particular place and
moment of Nature's total character, so every particular Christian
miracle manifests at a particular place and moment the character
and significance of the Incarnation. There is no question in
Christianity of arbitrary interferences just scattered about. It
relates not to a series of disconnected raids on Nature but the
various steps of a strategically coherent invasion -- an invasion
which intends complete conquest and "occupation." The fitness, and
therefore credibility, of the particular miracles depends on their
relation to the Grand Miracle; all discussion of them in isolation
is futile.

<End C.S. Lewis quote.

I have selected these quotations because of what they say, and
also what they do not say. I could have picked others, but nowhere
in the BCP is the statement made that I must believe every word of
the Bible to be literally true in order to be considered either a
Christian or an Episcopalian. (I will get to just what I do
believe in a moment.) The quotation from C.S. Lewis (did he ever
write even a single paragraph that is not worthy of quotation?)
puts the whole concepts of miracles, he does not exclude creation,
in perspective.

My point is this -- as Christians we should concentrate on the
beliefs we hold in common, not on our differences. All we are
doing is creating a new Tower of Babel that is going to separate
the Church instead of bringing us together. We should concentrate
on spreading the Gospel to the millions who have not heard it, and
to those who have been purposefully lead way from it by the
misguided teachings of Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy and the
Fillmores, and Charles Russell. There are more false teachers I
could mention, but I'm already past 100 lines. Let us unite in the
Body of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and spread the Good
News of eternal life NOW, Salvation, and the love of God. The
world has been created and further arguing over whether it took
six days or 600 millenia is futile.

Finally, as regards my own beliefs in this matter, I will try to
recall what I said during a similar conversation several weeks
ago on the Religion Forum of Compuserve. The specific topic was
Jonah and the great fish(whale) but the basic question was the
same - in what sense in the Bible true? My reply went something
like this:

I believe that the Bible is true in the sense that when we read
the Bible, we read the Word of God. I also believe in miracles.
The world is God's creation, He established the rules for it's
operation. We know a verrrrry small part of those rules - we call
that knowledge "science". I believe that God could have kept Jonah
alive in the mouth/belly of the great fish/whale for three days if
that was His wish. Therefore, whether He actually did or not has
no bearing on my faith, either in God or in His power to perform
miracles. This may seem like a cop-out to some, but we live now,
and God is with us now through the indwelling Holy Spirit.


"Rejoice in the Lord, always. And again I say, Rejoice"
Phil 4:4.

bch@unc.UUCP (Byron Howes ) (02/04/84)

Christian intolerance raises its ugly head again:

>>My point is this -- as Christians we should concentrate on the
>>beliefs we hold in common, not on our differences. All we are
>>doing is creating a new Tower of Babel that is going to separate
>>the Church instead of bringing us together. We should concentrate
>>on spreading the Gospel to the millions who have not heard it, and
>>to those who have been purposefully lead way from it by the
>>misguided teachings of Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy and the
>>Fillmores, and Charles Russell. There are more false teachers I
>>could mention, but I'm already past 100 lines. Let us unite in the
>>Body of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and spread the Good
>>News of eternal life NOW, Salvation, and the love of God. The
>>world has been created and further arguing over whether it took
>>six days or 600 millenia is futile.

How is it that your faith is "correct" and these others are "misguided"
or "false?"  From other quotations in your article it doesn't appear that
you believe that divine inspiration ceased with the New Testament, so on
what basis do you deny that claim to faiths other than your own?  I fail
to see major differences between the beliefs of Mormons, Christian
Scientists and Episcopalians, especially in regard to the Incarnation and
its importance to Christian belief.  Would you document your claims rather
than merrily blasting away?

						Thanks,
-- 
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

					Byron Howes
					UNC - Chapel Hill
					(decvax!mcnc!unc!bch)