aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (02/15/84)
<in case the net demands a sacrifice> Those of you who read net.singles may remember my article entitled "Weird and Wonderful Idea". This followup appears in both net.religion and net.singles because I have found that my relationship to God and my relationship to people (MOTOS's included) are inextricably intertwined. I am basically hoping that this article will elicit some worthwhile advice (rather than flames) from readers, and that it will show Christian and non-Christian alike a picture of how a Christian struggles to handle a powerful and painfully cherished desire both faithfully and realistically. (Really, the Christian faith is not focused on doctrines; it is focused on learning how to live as a full human being. I hope this article deluges some of the dryness that so often pervades net.religion!) Here follow the main sentences of the article I mentioned: > I had an idea which promises to be one of the most liberating thoughts I've > ever latched onto. It is this: > > There is no qualitative difference between friendship and romance, only > quantitative. > > Really, don't friendship and romance differ only in how MUCH you give and > how MUCH you want (emotionally, physically, etc.)? Makes sense to me. I still feel that this is, in some sense, true; however, I have since seen the flip side, which is that the progression is nonlinear--exponential, maybe quartic, perhaps even with a jump discontinuity. I do feel freer than I did to do "dating"-type activities (e.g. going to movies) with "just friends". I have felt for years that friendship was essential in a romance; now I know that the two are really on the same Cartesian plane. But the discontinuity comes in when one considers that romance involves, to at least a small extent, sexuality. This is not exclusively (or even necessarily very much) physical; to me, the emotional and spiritual passion and communion constitute the main focus, with the physical closeness only an expression of something greater. I want a woman to not just accept me as a friend, a person who happens to be male and has desires. I want a woman to accept my desire, to allow me to desire her, and preferably to return my desire. This is especially so for a man who in 28.6 years has not yet climbed that slippery, steep quartic curve even to the kissing stage. But how does faith tie into this? God asks us to give ourselves totally to Him in order that He may give us our true selves. One might say that if you don't give some part of you, or something you have, into His kingdom now, you won't have it when His kingdom comes. (I know this could be disputed, but let's not; it's tough enough to write this article without having to argue about it.) So the only thing for a Christian striving to follow and emulate Christ to do is to give up this desire to God, and allow God to determine how, when, and if it will ever be satisfied in this life. I do not know now if I will ever reach the kissing stage with a woman. I am trying to "walk by faith, and not by sight", believing that God has a better idea of what's best for me than I do, and I will see it in hindsight (as I have in some tough situations before). It is very frustrating not to know whether God is leading me toward lifelong (or long-term) total celibacy (i.e. zero romance), toward marriage, or possibly toward a dating situation that will not turn into marriage. But I know myself well enough not to trust myself to handle this on my own; I'm sure to make a hash of it. So I have to trust Him and follow Him up this narrow path on a mountain ledge. God's too tall for me to see over His shoulder, and too broad for me to peep around Him without falling off into the abyss; so I don't know what's coming. On the other hand, this means that I have a really hefty Person with me Who will intercept the troubles that I might meet on this path and Who will deal with the worst of them before they can get to me. He is, of course, much stronger and better equipped than I to handle them. Now all that provides some reassurance that the pain will not become more than I can bear. But I am not yet such a saint as Paul, who could suffer in all sorts of ways and "count it all joy". I just wish that God could somehow show me how I can have more than just brief moments of happiness and rest in the long climb. Isn't there, anywhere, a green mountain meadow where I can just lie down for a while in the soft grass, drink from a cool, clear stream, enjoy the warmth of the sun and the fruit from the trees, and be happy for a while? Or am I stuck, for this life (which could go on another 40-50 years) on this narrow, rocky, tricky path? Is there a meadow right by me that I'm not seeing due to an imperfect understanding of what my Guide has in mind for me? Basically, what I'm saying is: I have borne much worse pain than this (and very nearly become temporarily criminally insane as a result). But that doesn't make the pain any more palatable. My emotions and my choices have for many years been structured so that I would get my emotional kicks or highs from depression, anger, despair, anxiety, and all the other emotions that combine to produce agony, rather than from joy; agony is easy to find. But now I want to take another step toward being a full, normal, real human being, and get my highs from joy; and all I seem able to find is agony. I don't know where to look for joy; I hardly even know how; and I shouldn't do that anyway--I should look for God. But how is it that others who try to follow God can find joy, but it so rarely comes my way? WHERE AM I FAILING? Where am I failing in understanding of God, in surrender to Him, in stepping out and risking myself in faith that God will bring grace into my mistakes, in trusting Him to either make me a contented celibate (not just logically see the advantages of living solo, but really be content without romance) or send the appropriate woman into my life at the right time (or enable me to see the appropriateness of someone who has been there all the time)? Help?... -- -- Jeff Sargent {allegra, ihnp4, decvax, harpo, seismo, teklabs, ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "Buy the truth and do not sell it; gain wisdom, knowledge, and understanding."
jonw@azure.UUCP (02/16/84)
Open letter to Jeff Sargent: Your submission has got to be one of the most plaintive and heartfelt items that I have read on the net. The only thing that I can do to help (and I realize that you are not likely to view this as "help") is to tell you what I think part of your problem is. Everyone, at one time or another, has experienced the type of loneliness that you have described, but you have compounded your misery by believing that a personal god is controlling events in your life. What is He trying to tell you? What plans does He have for you? What does all of this mean? The obvious answer to these questions is NOTHING. You are futilely ascribing an importance to events that just isn't there. If you choose to live your life in a superstitious fashion, believing that some deity is constantly rewarding/punishing you and everyone else, then I guarantee that you will never be able to view the world through anything other than the foggiest of glasses. So, my advice to you is stop trying to carry all that superstitious baggage and start seeing life for what it really is: a mixture of joy and pain that is somewhat in your power to control, but often seems subject to events beyond your control. There comes a time for all of us to cast aside belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, and likewise comes a time when any thinking individual must decide whether the whole concept of a personal god is realistic or just someone else's wishful thinking. I realize that there are a lot of folks out there who are desperately clinging on to a belief in supernatural religion because they fear that life would be meaningless without it, and to them I can say only their life must be truly meaningless if they must use a fairy tale to justify their existence. Send flames to net.religion or via mail -- I don't read net.singles. Jon White [decvax|ucbvax]!tektronix!tekmdp!azure!jonw
aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (02/18/84)
<in case the net demands a sacrifice> Response to Jon White: > Everyone, at one time or another, has experienced the type of loneliness > that you have described, but you have compounded your misery by believing > that a personal god is controlling events in your life. What is He trying > to tell you? What plans does He have for you? What does all of this mean? > The obvious answer to these questions is NOTHING. You are futilely > ascribing an importance to events that just isn't there. Obviously, I disagree. One reason I sounded so desperate is that I'm a perfectionist: I still, sometimes, go at faith and the whole question of God's will from the negative feeling that *I* have got to do the best possible, that I have to know what that is so I can do it--a leftover of my school days when, having nothing else, I got my whole identity from being a whiz kid. And I'm a perfectionist about myself: It is obvious that I don't live a Christlike life, and I condemn myself (despite the verse "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"). I get very frustrated when it isn't obvious which direction to go to reach perfection. I will readily admit that I am uncomfortable with the following quote from Dr. Paul Tournier, which I reproduce to spur on other uncomfortable Christians (and non-Christians) on the net: "The person who will not dare to risk being mistaken about the will of God will never come to know God any better." > If you choose to live your life in a superstitious fashion, believing that > some deity is constantly rewarding/punishing you and everyone else, then I > guarantee that you will never be able to view the world through anything > other than the foggiest of glasses. I DON'T believe that God is sitting up there judging, tossing out plums to those who do His will and zapping those who don't (though I'm not all that far, chronologically, from such a belief). "As you sow, so shall you reap"; that's just the way the world runs; God doesn't usually make a special point of zinging us; you make your bed, you lie in it. But the Bible talks about an abundant, joyous life. I've had a life with minimal abundance and joy (though it could be worse; I have a friend who's quadriplegic), so I have more than the normal desire for some joy, some happiness--which is really what God wants us to have; I'm just not sure how to get there, or as I said in my article, what I'm not seeing that's obvious to anyone else. But you have it backward: It's not the fact that I believe in God that is fogging my glasses; it's the fact that I don't believe enough. > So, my advice to you is stop trying to carry all that superstitious baggage > and start seeing life for what it really is: a mixture of joy and pain > that is somewhat in your power to control, but often seems subject to > events beyond your control. There comes a time for all of us to cast aside > belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, and likewise comes a time when > any thinking individual must decide whether the whole concept of a personal > god is realistic or just someone else's wishful thinking. I realize that > there are a lot of folks out there who are desperately clinging on to a > belief in supernatural religion because they fear that life would be > meaningless without it, and to them I can say only their life must be truly > meaningless if they must use a fairy tale to justify their existence. Inasmuch as (believe it or not) I am in much BETTER psychological condition overall now than I was, say, 9 years ago (or even 2 years ago), and that most of the change has occurred as a result of prayer (intensive communication with God), I have long since decided that the concept of a personal God is indeed realistic. My view of Him is obviously not totally realistic, since I still feel so rocky. Still, if I did not know Him, my life would not only be meaningless; it might not even still be continuing; without going into details, I can say that were it not for my relationship with Christ, I would probably be one or more of: dead by my own hand (the likeliest); in prison; or dead by the electric chair. Besides, I program computers for a living. This is, I contend, a rather meaningless activity by itself. (I don't feel up to defending this position in detail right now.) Basically, I agree with you that I have to somehow get out of my present position; but I don't think you're leading me the right way. It has been at my times when I was in closest touch with God that I was happiest, had greatest confidence, wrote my best songs, etc. But the Christian life is an uphill climb; when I top one ridge, I recognize (eventually) another, higher one to be climbed. And in my case, the motivation to keep climbing is the hope (sometimes a hope against hope) that things will get better, that as I really come to understand God and do His will, that I will finally begin to partake more than sporadically of that joy which He intends all His children to feast upon. -- -- Jeff Sargent {allegra|ihnp4|decvax|harpo|seismo|teklabs|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "Buy the truth and do not sell it; gain wisdom, knowledge, and understanding."
aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (02/18/84)
Clay Phipps <ihnp4!fortune!phipps> sent me what I consider the most uplifting of several similar replies I received to my long, painful article. His letter here follows: > Food for thought (I hope it is not taken harshly): > > Trusting in God should not mean that you sit back and take no risks, > expecting that God will do all the work and bear all the disappointmants > for you until he provides you with an unambiguous answer to your travail. > > God provided you with a heart and a mind. > Have you seriously considered acting on the idea that God > wants you to make decisions for yourself, without waiting for Him > to tell you what to do, or provide for your needs ? > Even Christ was tested; how can you be sure that He is not testing you ? Here's the best part: > Perhaps an allegory (parable ?) will help get my point across. > Do you seriously believe that if God wanted an athlete to win > some event in the Olympics, that the athlete should not train for that > event as rigorously as some one who did not have His support ? > Should that athlete just sit back and refuse to engage in any exercise, > on the rationale that he can have no effect on the outcome that He will > decree ? -- -- Jeff Sargent {allegra|ihnp4|decvax|harpo|seismo|teklabs|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "Buy the truth and do not sell it; gain wisdom, knowledge, and understanding."