david@ssc-vax.UUCP (David Norris) (02/29/84)
> It's a shame that Norris has lowered himself even further to defend someone > like Collins. ENOUGH OF THIS! I've had this on my mind for a long time, and it's about time I said it. There seem to be a number of types on this newsgroup. In the one, I put people like Laura Creighton, Byron Howes, Jon White, Paul Dubuc, Larry Bickford, and others I can't think of offhand. Although I may violently disagree with some of them sometimes, they are intelligent folks who can put up SOME defense for their beliefs, no matter what I may think of them. Note that none of these people (that I am aware of) criticized Collins for his bad spelling. I truly believe that members of this group feel sorry for Collins; not because he is a bad speller, or because of his religious persuasion, but because he has been attacked so viciously by other "contributors". Now there is another group, the Ad Hominem Fellows. This fraternity spends it time explaining how stupid you have to be because you follow an evangelist, and how important it is to have an open wallet. This, they explain, is obvious because one man used an "i" instead of an "a" in misspelling a word. The Ad Hominem Fellows generally stick up for each other by verbally abusing anyone who threatens a member of the Order. So I put forth this challenge to the Ad Hominem Fellows. Let's see some good solid evidence that the education of the average evangelistic Christian is lower than the national average. An unbiased survey, for example. Let's see some evidence which proves that evangelists do not care about you if you don't have any money. Be sure that this evidence is statistically valid, and be sure you *carefully* define the term "evangelist" (i.e., "evangelist" is the type you see on "Oh God" - won't cut it). Any comments? Does anybody else feel this way, or am I way off base? -- David Norris :-) -- uw-beaver!ssc-vax!david
pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) (03/02/84)
I think that the best thing to do with ad hominem argument is to ignore it. Save your mental energy for something more worthwhile. So what if they get the satisfaction of thinking they are right. That's all they want anyway--not to learn something new from us inherently ignorant and backward Christians. As for Dave's suggested survey. I think that it will prove nothing either way. If a larger portion of the "educated" are atheists, what would that prove? Given the present secularistic philosophy that has undergirded our educational system for the past several decades, I wouldn't be suprised if that were the case. How much exposure is there to Christian philosopy (yes folks, there is such a thing) in our major universities? Go into your local student book store and see how may books by Arthur Holmes, Norman Geisler, Michael Green, Os Guiness (sp?), C. S. Lewis, or Francis Schaeffer (to name a few) that you find. When I was in high school I read Ayn Rand and Herman Hesse. Their books were availible in the school library. They were required reading in one college course that I took. The Bible is supposed to have been one of the most influential (if not THE most) in our western culture. I am suprised at the ignorance of it's content that I find umong the "educated ones" that I meet. (Especially when it comes to understanding evangelicalism). Most have been told what to believe about the Bible's teaching and that instruction is usually convenient to the basic human desire to avoid the moral implications of that teaching, in my opinion. (Had to add those last three words. Take it for what it's worth.) The issue is not the amount of education, but in what they are educated. I don't think that a university degree gives one a corner on truth and knowledge, especially in the area of morals, ethics and theology. Much of one's education consists of filling the mind, not maturing it. Just curious: How many of you have read C. S. Lewis book "The Abolition of Man" in college? How many had even heard of it (or even him)? Paul Dubuc Oh,... please excuse the spelling errors. I assure you that I don't follow any particlular evangelist. :-)