wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (02/24/84)
Please, Mr. Davis, if you want to proselytize, go out and find a nice street corner and set up shop. As you will note from reading the Articles in this news group, everyone has his or her opinion regarding religion. I have never seen an opinion changed or a stand reversed because of the type of submission you have posted. Most of the arguments amount to "how many angels can sit on the head of a pin?" type. The discussions are interesting, with the different sides defending their positions with great outpourings of deathless prose. Just be content to read them, but don't go telling anyone they are going to roast in some mythical oven. Many, and some quite religeous, netters just do not believe that that scenario is true. The arguments have been, if you wish to join in: a. God is dead b. God is mean and nasty c. God is good d. There is no god e. Who needs god f. Morality has nothing to do with god g. God is everything h. God is an abstract whatever i. God is real j. My god is nicer than your god k. Religion is the opiate of the masses l. Gods I have never met and so on....... No one is telling anyone else that they are going to go to hell in a handbasket if they don't believe the same way. Save the fire and brimestone for the street corner or tent meeting. Jump into the fray at any point, but remember, you ain't gonna change any minds out there. It is best to present what you believe then stand back and be ready to defend your position from all sides. It may sound sometimes as if people are attacking your beliefs. It is most likely not so, they are just defending their own positions. We all have our hobbyhorses to ride. T. C. Wheeler
gulley@stolaf.UUCP (William T. Gulley) (02/28/84)
Sorry, T.C., but it looks like you're doing much the same
to tdavis as you feel he's doing to you. . only on the opposite
end of the fence. Like it or not, proselytizing is, and always
has been a part of not only religion, but Americanism, Communism,
and anything else that evokes a sense of belief in a person. If
you don't believe something's good for someone else, how can you
believe that it's good for you? (Unless, of course, you feel some-
how we're not all intrinsically the same, and "truth" exists in
tailor-made personal versions- a belief system I am well acquainted
with)
A lot of the talk here about religion is stimulating and rel-
evant, with the vast majority approaching it from a largely intel-
lectual standpoint. (Which is great- St. Augustine would love it)
However, I for at least one, feel that Tom Davis's speaking from
a highly subjective, highly UN-deteched viewpoint not only some-
what refreshing from the intellectualism, ("You open your mind too
much, and your brains will fall out") but serves to round out the
content of this newsgroup by presenting the views of one who
speaks totally from "inside" a belief.
If his expressed views seem too simple and trusting to you,
maybe it's only because he confidently attempts to give answers,
not just constantly more questions. Take them or leave them.
Any committed Islamics or Zen Buddhists out there?
____
Man, that felt great. .
William Gulley - St. Olaf College - Northfield, MN 55057
. .!inhp4!stolaf!gulley
tld@ssc-vax.UUCP (Thomas L Davis) (03/04/84)
Therefore, as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord." When I came to you, bretheren, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Cor. 1:31-2:2 (RSV). I have been accused of proselytizing on this net. I deny that most vehemently. If anyone out there is a Methodist or Baptist or Lutheran, it is not my intent to entice you into the the Episcopal Church, and that is the meaning of proselytizing. What I have been guilty of, and like Pres. Reagan I will wear this accusation like a crown, is evangelizing, speading the Gospel, the "Good News." There seem to be those on this net who wish only to engage in "mental Onanism." They are free with critical comments, but not willing to hear defense or apologies for a given point of view. If this net is to be a free and meaningful exhange medium, then it must be open to all varieties of expression. I find many of the views expressed here to be distasteful and frequently obnoxious. I try to respond in an orderly and civilized manner without attacking the person, only the subject matter. When I err, or waiver from this path, I expect correction. But I do not expect vilification for the statement of deeply held religious convictions. There seem to be those here who are so insecure in their being, that they feel they must apologize for their very existence, for every breath that they take. To those I would say "God loves you, even in your sin, regardless of your opinion of belief in Him." No one needs to be ashamed or to be in fear of the Lord. "He loved us, even when we were in sin." And to Bill Culley, thanks for the nice words. Tom Davis uw-beaver!ssc-vax!tld