palmer@uw-june (David Palmer) (02/26/84)
<>
Jesus said that the Apocalypse would come before all of the people
living at that time were dead. Since the Apocalypse has, apparently,
not come, it would be consistent to assume that there is at least one
person now living who was living when Jesus made that pronouncement.
The Wandering Jew, according to legend, was someone who refused to
acknowledge Jesus' messiahhood. For this he was condemned to live
until the second coming. Every time he grew to be 100 years old
biologically, he returned to the age of ~30, the age he was when he was
condemned.
Have any churches (and if so, which?) made the Wandering Jew part of
their theology in order to reconcile Jesus' words with the long
Apocalypse-free period? Is there any other theological explanation?
(e.g. Many of those who were alive at that time accepted Jesus and
gained eternal life, G*d decided to give the world more time to get its
act together, etc.)
David Palmeramigo2@ihuxq.UUCP (John Hobson) (02/28/84)
The Wandering Jew Legend has been around for a long time. As far as I know, no Christian church has it as any part of its doctrine. It is just what its title says it is, a legend. There is no scriptural basis for it whatsoever. The Wandering Jew was used very well as a character in Walter Miller, Jr's fine sf novel, A Canticle For Liebowitz. There is also a ghastly French novel by Eugene Sue, The Wandering Jew. If you have access to one of the old Encyclopedia Brittanicas, there is a very good article on the legend. About Jesus saying that the Apocalypse would come before all the people living at his time would die, I looked for it in my Bible, and I couldn't find it. Mr. Palmer, sir, what are you referring to? John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs--Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihuxq!amigo2
palmer@uw-june (David Palmer) (03/01/84)
erily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,
till all be fulfilled.
The Revised Standard Version and The New International Version are
similar, but the Good News Bible is more explicit, saying that not
everyone would die before these things happen (my paraphrase, I don't
have a GNB handy.)
Is there some mistranslation going on here?, or is it claimed that
he really said what he seems to have said?
David Palmerreese@teltone.UUCP (o) (03/01/84)
Frankly, I've never heard of the wandering Jew story. Although, I'm not surprised at this interpretation. The key, I believe, is in the few verses before those quoted. Actually, the most all the chapter in which the subject occurs should be considered. Anyway, the key is the fig tree. Most discussions that I've heard on the subject indicate that this parable is symbolic of the Jew returning to the Holy Land. The budding of the fig tree was Jesus's symbol of that event and thus a prophecy of events now taking place. The generation in question is the one at the time of the restoral of the nation Israel. There have been many dates give to indicate when that is and many periods of time given to indicate the length of a generation. With this introduction I'm saying there is no wandering Jew. What I believe is that Jesus gave information to indicate when He is coming back for His Church. There are many who believe it will be real soon. But there has not been, in my opinion, a precise determination when the generation started are how long it will last. I do agree that it appears to have started when Israel was declared to be a nation. As to how long a generation is, 40, 70, 100 years?? Maranatha, Jim Reese !teltone!reese
rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (03/01/84)
>Subject: Wandering Jew and the Second Coming > >Jesus said that the Apocalypse would come before all of the people >living at that time were dead. Since the Apocalypse has, apparently, >not come, it would be consistent to assume that there is at least one >person now living who was living when Jesus made that pronouncement. > >The Wandering Jew, according to legend, was someone who refused to >acknowledge Jesus' messiahhood. For this he was condemned to live >until the second coming. Every time he grew to be 100 years old >biologically, he returned to the age of ~30, the age he was when he was >condemned. > >Have any churches (and if so, which?) made the Wandering Jew part of >their theology in order to reconcile Jesus' words with the long >Apocalypse-free period? Is there any other theological explanation? >(e.g. Many of those who were alive at that time accepted Jesus and >gained eternal life, G*d decided to give the world more time to get its >act together, etc.) > > David Palmer > > I think the Wandering Jew hypothesis ( which I never heard before ) is an elaborate attempt to exagete a difficult scriptural text in English. If we approach the problem a little differently we can maybe come to another solution to the tough problem of both Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:32 where Jesus says: (Matt.) "...,this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Luke)"..,this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." quotes from the King James Translation (a.k.a. the A.V.) The word translated into English in both texts as "generation" has the same Greek root word "Genea" (Luke) and "Gennema" (Matt.) This root word refers to race or lineage or genealogy rather than those who are immediately alive around the speaker. The reference on this is W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, page 144. Therefore, a reasonable interpretation of Jesus' prophecy is that His audience (the Jews) will exist as a "race" long enough to see His prophecies fulfilled. Now when you consider the human and/or satanic efforts to eradicate Jewish people from planet earth over the last 2000 (and more) years, and if you agree with this argument then Jesus' prophecy still has an opportunity to be completely fulfilled ( since the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD). NOTE: Notice that I am presenting an argument based on Mr. Vine's authority as a Biblical Scholar in Greek. I have noticed on the net that some people imply that arguing from authority is engaging in a logical fallacy. If you check the logic texts they will show that it is possible to argue from authority ( the Latin for this translates as "The argument from the big stick") but that it is one of the weaker argument positions. However, we all can't be experts on everything and some authorities like Mr. Vine become "accredited". Bob Brown {...pur-ee!inuxc!ihnp4!clyde!akgua!rjb} AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga (404) 447-3784 ... Cornet 583-3784
jlp@inmet.UUCP (03/07/84)
#R:uw-june:-104800:inmet:11600007:000:1450
inmet!jlp Mar 5 17:38:00 1984
Re: Clarification of the quote
The passage quoted is Matthew 24:34: "Verily I say unto you, This generation
shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (KJV)
The question may then be asked, "Of which generation is Jesus speaking?" The
answer is provided in the context of the passage. The presenting question to
Jesus was "when shall these things be? And waht shall be the sign of thy
coming, and of the end of the world?"
Jesus spends the next 30 verses answering this question, describing the
conditions and things to be observed before all fulfillment is complete.
The conditions described have not yet happened in their entirety, although
segments of the conditions have been around for the last 2000 years.
In the Luke account of this passage, chapter 21, Jesus gives a parable of
the fig tree before the statement in question. The impllication of the parable
is that the generation which see the signs described in this discourse shall
be the generation which will not pass away, until all the signs are fulfilled.
"Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they shoot forth, ye see and
know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when
ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the knigdom of God is nigh at
hand. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be
fulfilled." (Luke 21:29-32)
The Organ Keyboard of
Jerryl Payne
{esquire,harpo,decvax!cca!ima}!inmet!jlpcng@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) (03/18/84)
<From David Palmer> > Jesus said that the Apocalypse would come before all of the people > living at that time were dead. Since the Apocalypse has, apparently, > not come, it would be consistent to assume that there is at least one > person now living who was living when Jesus made that pronouncement. ... > Have any churches (and if so, which?) made the Wandering Jew part of > their theology in order to reconcile Jesus' words with the long > Apocalypse-free period? Is there any other theological explanation? > (e.g. Many of those who were alive at that time accepted Jesus and > gained eternal life, G*d decided to give the world more time to get its > act together, etc.) An alternate explanation: The assumption you make that the apocalypse has not yet come is false. It can be shown from scripture that the tribulation period spoken of in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 coincided with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple which occurred in 70AD. Jesus spoke of the events in those passages as coming upon 'this generation' (Mt 24:34). That same phrase is used elsewhere by Christ as referring to those living at that particular time in Israel (see Mt 11:16, 12:41) Jesus is warning in these passages of the impending destruction of the Jewish nation and the dissolution of the Old Covenant. It was necessary that all this should occur so that the church would be established. The problem that most people get into when interpreting these verses is that they reply on their concept of what the words mean rather than allowing scripture speak for itself. There are those today that look for a yet future revival of the Roman empire, a rebuilding of the Jewish temple coupled with the reestablishment of the Jewish nation as signs that Christ is returning to judge the world. What they fail to realize is that this is exactly what happened in 70AD. God used the Roman army to punish Israel for their centuries of disobedience and their ultimate rejection of the Messiah. Tom Albrecht -- Burroughs Corp. ...{presby|psuvax|sdcrdcf|bpa}!burdvax!cng P.O. Box 235 (215) 269-1100 Downingtown, PA 19335