[net.religion] Freeze your rear off, Andy Tannenbaum!

lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (03/17/84)

* METEOROLOGICAL ALERT: Severe Ice Storm heading in from California! *

Who does Andy Tannenbaum think he is, trying to raise support for his
new-found pet organization?!? If someone were to post a "plea for finan-
cial support for a non-profit organization" headed by Jerry Falwell, the
flames generated would make the Towering Inferno look like a safety match!

> This message contains a plea for financial support for a non-profit
> organization.  Read no further if you are upset by such things.

Note the simple, casual intro. Maybe for the March of Dimes?

> I'm disgusted by the efforts of right wing groups trying to force their
> morals on us.  Prayer in the schools, censorship, and other invasions
> on our privacy and freedom are banging on our doors and windows.

And I'm disgusted by the efforts of groups (whose ideologies shall
remain unnamed) trying to force their morals on us. Worship of the great
gods Man, Money, and Temporary Pleasures being thrust on us everywhere,
indoctrinating children by forcing them to read books that contain
obscene language or that convey low moral standards as being acceptable,
being forced to allow perverted behavior under the pretense of "civil
liberty" and essentially forcing me to keep *my* religion to myself,
taking kids away from parents under the pretense of "social welfare" --
I'm doing my best to keep my doors and windows intact.

> This past week I saw Demond Wilson (formerly Red Foxx's sidekick on the
> TV show "Sanford and Son") talking with Ted Koppel on the TV news.  Mr.
> Wilson said that he wanted to see the US become a Christian state.
> There were all these other pop stars and politicians saying the same
> kind of thing.  I could not believe I was seeing this happen in America.

I could not believe that the land of the free and the home of the brave
would turn itself into a breeding-ground for the destruction of man from
the inside. Stay tuned after the evening news and see people cheat on
their spouses, show complete disrepect for authority, and find excuses
to justify just about anything.

> One organization that fights against this sort of stuff is called "People
> for the American Way."  It was started by TV producer Norman Lear, and it
> fights for freedom for all, and against the forces of censorship.

One organization that fights against this sort of stuff is called "Moral
Majority." It was started by Rev. Jerry Falwell, and it fights for
decency and respect for all, to show the real meaning of freedom, and
against those who twist "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion"
into saturation by their views and censorship of opposing views.

> I get periodic mailings from PfAW, and they talk about what progress
> they've made in fighting censorship, producing documentaries, and
> such.  Most of the material is factual and I find it interesting.
> Sometimes their pleas for money seem a bit brash, but they are fighting
> a tough fight, so I can excuse that.

I don't get periodic mailings from MM (but Andy's article may prompt me
to start). I have seen a couple of their reports, and they talk about
what progress they've made in fighting state intrusions, getting the
hidden facts to the public, and such. The material is factual; most of
it is available from public sources, but is generally not published in
the news media.  Some people don't like MM's pleas for money, but the
battle is tough when the opposition occupies nearly all the media and
has companies *paying them* to produce TV shows to further saturate
people with their value system (besides the preaching inherent in the
commercials themselves).

I don't have Moral Majority's address with me (I should be able to
get this weekend), but you may also get it by sending a post card to
	Jerry Falwell
	Lynchburg, VA 24514
and asking for it. Contributions to MM are not tax-deductible.
-- 
				The Ice Floe of the Q-Bick
				{ucbvax,ihnp4}!{decwrl,amd70}!qubix!lab
				decwrl!qubix!lab@Berkeley.ARPA

sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer) (03/17/84)

I cannot understand Larry Bickford's flame against Andy T's posting
regarding the organization "People for the American Way."

Instead of hearing specious arguments against the religion of "Secular
Humanism" designed to prop up a failing campaign to establish
fundamentalistchristianity (it's not what I call Christianity) as the
state religion, I'd like to hear specific arguments addressing some of the
points brought up by Steve Bellovin and others regarding protection of
individual beliefs and morality in the face of institutionalized school
prayer.

Bickford and the others of his ilk would prefer to throw away individual
protections and pluralism for a homogeneous christian state.  Is it any
wonder that Andy, myself, and many others take issue with this?
-- 
/Steve Dyer
{decvax,linus,ima}!bbncca!sdyer
sdyer@bbncca.ARPA

mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (03/20/84)

I knew qubix!lab was weird, but never before realized he was as perverted
as his note suggests:

>One organization that fights against this sort of stuff is called "Moral
>Majority." It was started by Rev. Jerry Falwell, and it fights for
>decency and respect for all, to show the real meaning of freedom, and
>against those who twist "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion"
>into saturation by their views and censorship of opposing views.

If there was ever a worse perversion of the truth since the days of
Dr. Goebbels, it doesn't readily come to mind.

The "Moral Majority" has learned its lesson well from the brown-shirted
masters, and its followers beat the same unthinking drum as they march
us all to their inferno.  Germany, too, had complete freedom of speech,
so long as the speech praised Hitler.  They had freedom of religion,
so long as it was not Jewish or anything else subhuman.  Proper Christian
prayers for the Fatherland were quite acceptable, thank you.  Is that
what "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" are to mean once more?
-- 

Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt

ignatz@ihuxx.UUCP (Dave Ihnat, Chicago, IL) (03/21/84)

AHAH!  FINALLY...An Admitted Falwellite!!

And exhibiting the typical narrow-mindedness of a true Falwellian
disciple.  What you have just defended is the right to prevent your
children--at any school age, by the tone of your response--from
encountering ANYTHING that counters your dearly-held beliefs, so that
he or she can grow up and engender still more narrow-minded bigots.
When something doesn't agree with your beliefs, it's obscene.  Not only that,
but by labelling it obscene, you feel free to thereby try to restrict
other's children--and, in fact, other adults, when you pressure public
libraries--from access to it.  Whatever it may be.  It never occurs to
you to foster an intelligent being who can rationally evaluate both
the universe around him/her, and the beliefs that are taught.  If your
beliefs are so wholesome and proper, they would be universally
accepted.  THEY'RE NOT!  The Falwell-type of Christianity has brought
about atrocities, book-burnings, hangings, and hypocrisy throughout
history.  I will NOT let it happen again, if there's ANYTHING I can do
to prevent it.

I don't flame often.  And I can't remember flaming before in this manner on
the net; and not keeping it in only in net.flame.  But this time, I am
personally threatened by these people.  I grew up in a
hypocrisy-ridden small town, where I saw the local church perform its
duties as a social club, not a temple of faith.  (Want the town and
sect?  Mail only.)  I've since met people who truly live up to what a
Christian should be--and now really know why the other kind both
sickens and terrifies me.  They're so insecure in their 'beliefs' that
they will turn to force of law--and physical force, if they can get
away with it--to guarantee that there will be nothing to conflict with
their view of the world which could possibly shake its rotten
foundations.

What am I?  None of your business, buster.  I've made my peace with my
God, whatever I perceive that over-used word to signify; and so far,
in this country, that's still legal.

		Expressing my views,
			Dave Ihnat
			ihuxx!ignatz

piet@mcvax.UUCP (Piet Beertema) (03/22/84)

	>One organization that fights against this sort of stuff is called
	>"Moral Majority." It was started by Rev. Jerry Falwell, and it fights
	>for decency etc. etc.
All this "Majority" (???) stands for is imposing their "Christian" ideas
and habits on other people. The result? The term "Ayatollah Falwell" would
describe that very well.
-- 
	Piet Beertema
	CWI (Center for Math. & Comp. Science), Amsterdam
	...{decvax,philabs}!mcvax!piet