paul@uiucuxc.UUCP (03/15/84)
#R:ihuxt:-32000:uiucuxc:34800001:000:274 uiucuxc!paul Mar 14 23:53:00 1984 And where do we go to protest Israel's occupation of Lebanon, its blatant act of war against Iraq (bombing their research reactor), its suppression of the elected city governments on the West Bank, etc? Paul Pomes, ihnp4!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!paul University of Illinois, CSO
porges@inmet.UUCP (03/19/84)
#R:ihuxt:-32000:inmet:11600015:000:894 inmet!porges Mar 19 01:58:00 1984 Base note: >Protest for Syrian Jewry >In light of the recent murders in Aleppo (Haleb) and continued oppression >in Syria >When: Tuesday, March 13, 1984 >Time: 12:00 - 2:00 PM >Where: Opposite the Syrian Mission to the United Nations, 150 E. 58 St. >New York City. Response: >And where do we go to protest Israel's occupation of Lebanon, its >blatant act of war against Iraq (bombing their research reactor), >its suppression of the elected city governments on the West Bank, >etc? Me: Oh, good. Hey, those Syrian (non-Israeli) Jews deserve what ever they get, in retaliation for poilicies of the Israeli government. Of course by this logic all Palestinians deserve whatever they get, in retaliation for actions of the PLO. And so on, forever. Sadly, -- Don Porges ...harpo!inmet!porges ...hplabs!sri-unix!cca!ima!inmet!porges ...yale-comix!ima!inmet!porges
martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo) (03/19/84)
My family are Arab Jews who come from Fezzan in Southern Libya where Jews have been oppressed by Arab Muslims for over one thousand years. We have no love for Arab Muslims. Yet, if agents of the Israeli government raped and hacked a pregnant Muslim woman to death in Nazareth just as agents of the Syrian government raped and hacked a pregnant Jewish woman (a citizen of Syria not Israel) to death in Haleb in Syria, we would take up arms against the government of the State of Israel. Alleged misdeeds of Israel or Syria elsewhere are irrelevant. Raping and hacking pregnant women to death is not behavior we will tolerate.
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (03/21/84)
~| From: paul@uiucuxc.UUCP (Paul Pomes)
~|
~| And where do we go to protest Israel's occupation of Lebanon, its
~| blatant act of war against Iraq (bombing their research reactor),
~| its suppression of the elected city governments on the West Bank,
~| etc?
1. Israel's occupation of Lebanon? In case you hadn't noticed, Israel
has been trying to get *out* of Lebanon for a while, in some way which
would allow the continued security of Israel's northern towns. It was
Syria which would not agree to the pullout of troops from Lebanon. Not
that I see any protests against Syria's role in Lebanon today.
2. "Research reactor" indeed. Research into nuclear weapons, perhaps?
Iraq is more than self-sufficient in oil and hardly needs nuclear
reactors for energy. The Iraqi leader had publicly stated within the
Arab press that his goal was an atomic bomb.
"Blatant act of war"? For your information, Israel and Iraq
are legally at war and have been since 1948. Iraq has consistently
refused to agree to any kind of peace with Israel or to acknowledge
its existence. Ever since 1948, the State of Israel has expressed
its willingness to negotiate a peace treaty with each and all of
its Arab adversaries. The Arab reply has always (until Egypt in 1977)
been "No peace, no negotiation, no recognition".
If there is even the *remotest* chance that the reactor
was being used to develop a nuclear weapon, Israel was entirely
within its rights to bomb it. Note that the operation was carried
out with pinpoint accuracy - *nothing* except the reactor was damaged,
and the only casualties were people in the reactor at the time.
Thank you, but I prefer criticism from the world to yet another
several million dead Jews.
3. "Suppression of the elected city governments on the West Bank".
<<<TURN ON HEAVY SARCASM>>>
Oh indeed. And all the citizens of Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,
Jordan, Libya, Yemen and the other Arab countries have elected governments.
Yes indeed, Israel was nasty, nasty, nasty to take away democracy
from a people who had enjoyed it for so long.
<<<HEAVY SARCASM OFF>>>
The mayors and councils which were dismissed were fomenting
rebellion and opposition to the Israeli government, in land which is
subject to the jurisdiction and under the control of the Israeli government.
If the people of the West Bank didn't wish to become under Israeli
control in the first place, they should have encouraged their (Jordanian)
government not to attack Israel in 1967. If they don't like it now,
they are welcome to leave for their own country (Jordan), just as
Jews throughout the Middle East left their homes for their own country
(Israel).
Dave Sherman
Toronto
--
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!davetischler@ihuxv.UUCP (Mark D. Tischler) (03/22/84)
Paul, There's no place to go to protest those things except Israel, where their democracy allows demonstrations and protests. You can't say that about any of the Arab countries whom you seem to fervently back. Israel's occupation of Lebanon was initiated for reasons of self-defense, namely to remove the PLO, who by the way was occupying southern Lebanon for 12 years. The bombing of the Iraqi nuclear plant was also in the name of self-defense. Don't tell me you think they were only going to use that plant for nuclear power. Arab countries just don't think logically--they think emotionally, thus leading to the conclusion that that plant was going to be used to build nuclear bombs to annihilate Israel (thanks to the French for their idiocy in providing the Iraqis with the necessary materials). On the issue of the West Bank city governments. Do you think the United States was any less subduing when they occupied various countries in the Pacific during World War II. If you do, you better read up on wartime tactics, because all warring nations do it when they occupy a territory. The difference, however, is that the Israelis are much more understanding and willing to negotiate than any Arab nation would ever be--they still cut off limbs as punishment--talk about being in the Dark Ages!!!!! Mark Tischler ihnp4!ihuxv!tischler
paul@uiucuxc.UUCP (03/25/84)
#R:utcsrgv:-358100:uiucuxc:34800003:000:1610
uiucuxc!paul Mar 24 17:14:00 1984
My the heat is on. Fortunately net.religion has about as much usefullness
as net.flame. Actually I occasionally pick up something useful reading
net.flame, the same cannot be said of this group. I seldom get this
far with my sequencer, but with the NCAA absorbing most of the RF band-
width available in Illinois, the lousy weather and the cost of new brake
shoes, I have descended to reading this file.
The comment that the remote possibility of making atomic explosives was
reason enough to bomb the reactor is ludicrous. Sure you can make
plutonium with the reactor sold to the Iraqis. Processing it is quite
another story and very difficult with international inspection. Iraq
HAS signed the non-proliferation treaty. Renouncing the treaty MIGHT
be cause for bombing, however bombs cannot be made overnight.
The Israeli rationale for invasion was tenuous at best, self-defeating
at worse. They're now reaping the worst possible outcome. With an indexed
inflation system running at 150% a year coupled with an estimated 2 billion
dollar cost to the invasion, the Israelis stand a good chance of bankrupting
themselves. What's infuriating is that the US not only bankrolls its
own intervention (currently Central America) but that of a client state
as well. Anyone recall that weapons sold to Israel are for "defensive"
purposes only? We should drop the bullshit and let them pay cash w.o.
giving the money to them first.
Paul Pomes
uucp: {decvax,ihnp4,pur-ee,ucbvax}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!paul
US Mail: Paul Pomes, University of Illinois
1304 W Springfield, Urbana, IL 61801