judy@ut-ngp.UUCP (03/26/84)
>This sounds suspiciously like the old "but they're not REAL Christians" excuse. Actually, what I said applies to all criticisms of groups based on the actions of a few people claiming membership in that group; but I'll bite. Excuse? No, it's common sense. Gullible people are easily led astray if they have no way of telling the wolf in sheep's clothing. Are you suggesting that you believe that someone is a Christian simply because they say so? If I said that I represented the City of New York, would you believe me? If so I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn ... I suspect that the premise that they ARE real Christians is pivotal to your arguement. >...my original article did not propose attacking the average, individual >Christian or even Jesus Christ; it was a criticism of the institution of >Christianity. Perhaps this was your intent but I don't recall you SAYING so. From the title of the article, how could I assume otherwise? In any case, the Holy Inquisition was NOT an institution of Christianity. The members of this group were Roman Catholic and since there are many practices in Catholicism that are in direct conflict with Christ's teachings one could hardly call them one and the same. And since Christianity literally means the state of believing in Christ, I don't see how you can attack one without the other. That's like saying "Gee, man, nothing personal, I just don't like the color of your skin". >I don't believe there is enough historical evidence to establish that Christ >ever really existed. If you mean the man Jesus called Christ try researching Roman and Israeli history of that time period. They have no reason to lie. If you mean Christ as in Son of God, well who knows what that term REALLY means - maybe we just misunderstood. Try explaining calculus to a five year old sometime and see how far YOU get. >However, if the Christian God exists, I would certainly blame Him for >creating Satan while knowing in perfect detail all the suffering of innocents >that would result. What makes you think that he knew that for certain? Suppose the risk that any angel would turn out flawed was about 33%? Perhaps this was acceptable. But until you can quote me a scripture that SAYS he knew for sure and did it anyway, I must concider this statement baseless. By the way, I concider all such claims as to God's ability to do anything, regardless of phyical laws and to know EXACTLY what will happen BEFORE it happens, just another misconception akin to the fruit that Adam and Eve ate was an apple and Jonah was swallowed by a whale. It dosn't SAY that, you just THINK it does. >Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Jesus who introduced the concept of >Hell? I don't believe that Hell was ever mentioned in the Old Testament. O.K. you're wrong. Read Isaiah 14.12-15. I'm sure there are more but that was the first good one I was able to find. (I don't have a Bible with a good index or the like.) If you intended to criticize institutions with ties to Christianity then you did not make your point clear. To make MY point clear: I do not intend to advocate Christianity. I also do not deny that there are institutions that claim to be Christian but are currupt. In fact those institutions make me mad because they tend to turn people off to Christianity so that many people don't find out for themselves what is really there. There may be thousands even millions of people out there who really think that Adam and Eve got into trouble because they ate an apple! What I am trying to say is that care must be taken when criticizing. First, make clear what is being criticized, then make sure that your argument is based on FACT, not misconceptions. I find it hard to take seriously any one making criticisms based on: Group X is bad because y and z are members and they are bad. Also, where religion is concerned, remember that fanatics are everywhere. Recall the Holy Inquisistion we had in the good ol' US of A not too long ago. It was called the Mc Carthy Era. Many innocent people suffered then too. Should we blame the Founding Fathers because they created the Constitution? "God isn't a magician - he's a scientist" - Albert Einstein Judy