ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (03/23/84)
--
The original statement from Jeff Sargent was that a proper Christian
attitude is: "We are not responsible for results, only for obedience."
I likened this statement to the "only obeying orders" defense invoked
at Nurenburg.
Jeff and other devout individuals have posted or written me saying that
Christian obedience is not the same thing, that God is good and doesn't
ask anyone (well, Jeff anyway) to inconvenience people. And the score
is Christians 1, Nazis 0, so that proves what happens when you're up to
no good.
Well, I'm glad you blindly obedient folks can tell the difference.
I'm still scared. Why? There's plenty of very devout people out there
who ARE inconveniencing people in the name of their religions (obviously
not just Christians). They have no guilty conscience--they have no
conscience at all--because they are simply the instrument of God's
just and good work. They believe it sincerely, and they say so.
Once you give up having to think about what you're doing you cannot
be trusted to act responsibly. Responsible people think about what
they're doing. It's interesting how Western society denigrates
premeditation. Crimes of passion are hardly crimes at all. Enough
of that aside. Responsible to whom? Yourself, god, whatever you
wish. But if you give up thinking, you are a zombie, and as such,
capable of wholesale slaughter followed by a good night's sleep.
--
*** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** *****
****** ****** 22 Mar 84 [2 Germinal An CXCII]
ken perlow ***** *****
(312)979-7261 ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (03/23/84)
ken perlow: > The original statement from Jeff Sargent was that a proper Christian > attitude is: "We are not responsible for results, only for obedience." > I likened this statement to the "only obeying orders" defense invoked > at Nurenburg. > Well, I'm glad you blindly obedient folks can tell the difference. > I'm still scared. Why? There's plenty of very devout people out there > who ARE inconveniencing people in the name of their religions (obviously > not just Christians). ... > Once you give up having to think about what you're doing you cannot > be trusted to act responsibly. Responsible people think about what > they're doing. Who said anything about not thinking? Thinking is very important. Do you really think we believe that God would give us such a powerful mind and then ask us to not use it? That would be like Cray building his supercomputer and then having it add 1+1 over and over again all day long. I think that a big part of "the meaning of life" is the attempt to figure out some of the hard questions. If our biggest problem was whether to have stuffing or potatoes with dinner, most of us would go nuts. If we don't have problems to work on, we *create* them. (Some might say we evolve them. :-) ) Many of us really do worry about whether some "message" is of God or of the devil. What the right thing to do is. Burning bushes and carved stone tablets don't come along that often. You have to listen very carefully, listen through the noise of the world. Satan is constantly trying to lead us away, and he's not stupid, he can plant ideas that sound very logical, until you really look closely and find the flaw. ( kind of like those math proofs that end with 1=0 ) Obedience? yes! *Blind* Obedience? no! -- _____ /_____\ I taught Walter Mitty everything he knows! /_______\ Snoopy |___| ____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert
krista@ihuxr.UUCP (k.j.anderson) (03/28/84)
<hi>
I fully agree with Ken's concern, even alarm at blind
obedience. Perhaps the trouble started with the aphorism, "judge
not lest ye be judged." When we cease to make value judgements we
have become something less than human. The quote should be
interpreted as "don't have a judgemental holier-than-thou attitude
because nobody's perfect". No responsible religious leader would
encourage people to quit thinking nor to be unquestioningly obedient
nor to stop making value judgements. Only an authoritarian dictator
would do that. It is our ability, our tendancy to construct a
system of values which makes us more human, less animal.
ihuxr!krista (k.j.anderson)