sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer) (03/31/84)
I must say that it is quite interesting to see the scriptures used as arguments against the Catholic Church. To my eyes, such attacks come from selective and biased readings of the Bible, focusing first on Catholic practices, and then searching for ways to "fit" verses as arguments against them. I sense a definite undercurrent of anti-Catholic bias in Judy's comments, and not merely a dispassionate enumeration of the differences between the Catholic Church and her fundamentalist sect. What's more, her attacks do not address any substantive issues of faith and belief at all, preferring instead to chip away at the unimportant ornaments that any organized religion picks up over the course of 2000 years. No one would argue that the Catholic Church relies solely on Scripture. Rather, it is believed that God reveals himself through Scripture and the teachings and traditions of the Church. If you don't like this, there's not much to be argued either way--this is essentially the crux of the whole Catholic/Protestant schism. Catholics do not, strictly speaking, pray to Mary or "certified" saints. Catholics, like other Christians, pray to God. The role of saints in devotional prayer is limited to emulation, meditation, and mediation, as in a meditation upon the life of Francis Assisi helping to focus an individual's prayer, or using the example of the saint to help one become closer to God. Saints are also said, in some sense, to be able to mediate between the individual and God during prayer, to act as an advocate, or intercede on behalf of the individual--sort of a "divine lawyer." Whatever you think of this last point, it isn't basic dogma. You don't have to "pray to the saints." >>And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, >>which is in heaven. >and what do Catholics call their Priests? I love this interpretation! Hey, Judy, what do you call your dad? The use of the word "Father" when referring to a priest is simply a honorific. >>But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do : for >>they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." >But at Confession (another Catholic doctrine) the "Father" intructs "Say 5 >Our Father's and 10 Hail Mary's for penance and you shall be forgiven. Huh? Perhaps, when Judy was dragged to the confessional by her mother as a child, she thought that the traditional penances were "vain repetitions." Probably, in that context, they were. The Sacrament of Penance focuses on the forgiveness of sins (certainly a topic with sufficient New Testament basis) and the reconciliation of the sinner with the community. In the new rite of Penance, one is unlikely to simply to be given the penance she mentions above. And even if one were, it is a gigantic misrepresentation to apply the Scriptural verse mentioned above to a series of devotional prayers. Am I the only one who takes offense at the transparency of such allegations? Is 'net.religion' a forum to knock selected organized religions? One can discuss doctrinal differences clearly and calmly, perhaps ending with an agreement to disagree. This is not what I see in ut-ngp!judy's most recent postings. -- /Steve Dyer {decvax,linus,ima}!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbncca.ARPA