lew@ihuxr.UUCP (Lew Mammel, Jr.) (03/16/84)
In his comments in net.flame on the question of persecution of Christians William Gulley stated: >In fact, it seems like anyone these days with a fixed and unswerving >(others would call it naiive- when it's actually the farthest thing from it) >faith in something, whether they're Christian, Islamic, or Republican, >tend to get a tough time from a lot of other people. I guess it's just more >"in vogue" to still be seeking blindly, than to admit you've actually >found what you've been looking for. I would like to point out that he has, perhaps unwittingly, adopted a humanistic perspective here. It seems implicit in this remark that the "something" isn't as important as the faith in it. The Christian view, as defined by St. Paul doesn't allow for this aloof perspective. It defines an absolute world view which certainly doesn't admit the legitimacy of Islam. While it's true that this Christian view advocates humane treatment of non-believers, any doctrine which asserts itself as an absolute truth inevitably influences its believers to grant themselves social and political ascendancy over non-believers. The rhetoric of Jerry Falwell and others like him make this quite evident. Perhaps William Gulley has found what HE is looking for, and he seems ready to cheerfully acknowledge the right of others to do likewise. I hope he will admit that there is a strong movement in this country which identifies itself as Christian, but which doesn't share his easygoing liberality towards other doctrines. Lew Mammel, Jr. ihnp4!ihuxr!lew
julian@deepthot.UUCP (Julian Davies) (03/16/84)
Questions as to whether "Christians" are tolerant (or anything else) strike me as ambiguous. There is such great diversity between different people and groups calling themselves 'Christian'. One of the lessons of history, I think, is that people of all persuasions find it much harder to be tolerant than they would like. We can all be tolerant some of the time, but being tolerant ALL the time is another matter. So, keep trying! Julian Davies
gulley@stolaf.UUCP (William T. Gulley) (04/01/84)
> I would like to point out that he has, perhaps unwittingly, adopted a > humanistic perspective here. It seems implicit in this remark that > the "something" isn't as important as the faith in it. The Christian > view, as defined by St. Paul doesn't allow for this aloof perspective. > It defines an absolute world view which certainly doesn't admit the > legitimacy of Islam. The faith, and the "something" that that faith is placed upon, is directly related, though. Your faith is only as strong as the "something" you put it on. > While it's true that this Christian view advocates humane treatment > of non-believers, any doctrine which asserts itself as an absolute > truth inevitably influences its believers to grant themselves social > and political ascendancy over non-believers. The rhetoric of Jerry > Falwell and others like him make this quite evident. > Perhaps William Gulley has found what HE is looking for, and he > seems ready to cheerfully acknowledge the right of others to do likewise. > I hope he will admit that there is a strong movement in this country > which identifies itself as Christian, but which doesn't share his > easygoing liberality towards other doctrines. > Lew Mammel, Jr. ihnp4!ihuxr!lew Well, I could argue one way or the other about that, but to be perfectly honest with you, I have enough problems with the logs in my own eye, than to get involved with the mote in yours, Jerry Falwell's, or anyone elses. I, as a Christian, am *commanded* by Christ to not judge or condemn anyone for what they are, but rather to love them as such. (Whether I always DO it or not is another matter, but I still believe that it's truth to do so) The Lord is perfectly capable of asserting Himself without my help. My primary responsibility as a Christian is to (with a LOT of the Lord's help) is to keep myself open to His help and influence. (Yes, I know that sounded recursive. It exists in CS, why can't it exist in religion?) He will use me in whatever way He wills, I believe that. I don't need to know always be in charge of it; that's called faith. (Some people don't want to trust Him that far. They always have to have their hand on the reins.) But to repeat Jeff Sargent's question, why attack Christ- ianity? (This is not specifically directed to LM) Why not spend your energy attacking dishonesty, selfishness, etc., which hide themselves within all belief systems and all areas of humanity. I guarantee you'll find many Christian opponents and cohorts, but you'll have Christ with you all the way. And He'll definately start with you, since you wanted it in the first place, and since He won't be done with humanity till He's done with you. (Athiests: Replace the "He"s in the previous sentence with "you"s. (almost the-) Same thing.) ____ UM YA YAAA!! Man, that felt great. . William Gulley - St. Olaf College - Northfield, Minnesota . .!inhp4!stolaf!gulley