robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (01/04/84)
Since I am jewish, I naturally regard anyone as Christian if s/he has a Christian mother (a sufficient but not necessary condition, exceptions for conversion made as required). - Toby Robison decvax!ittvax!eosp1 or: allegra!eosp1
garys@bunkerb.UUCP (Gary Samuelson) (04/03/84)
> An anthropologist arrives at an island to study the natives, and is > told by the medicine man that they have a religion which will render its > believers immortal. Months pass, and various natives die. The anthropologist > asks the medicine man what gives, and is told, "Well, obviously *they* > weren't faithful." > [summarized from remembrance of seeing it in a book on logical fallacies; > I wish I could remember the author, who was an economist as well, I think] > Sorry, but I can't tell the difference between claiming the Inquisition was > not made up of *real* Christians and the above anecdote. > James Jones I think it is logical to conclude that none of the natives who died were faithful adherents of a religion that renders its believers immortal. Now, is that because they were unfaithful, or because the religion isn't real? Logic can't tell you, with the information given. Sorry, but I can't figure out why the one thing a person can claim to be, without being questioned, is a Christian. Suppose I claimed to be Jewish. I expect that if I did that, any number of people on the net, Jews or not, would disbelieve me, unless and until I substantiated my claim by citing my beliefs and practices that identified me with the Jewish religion. Suppose I claimed to be a Republican (or a Democrat -- I'm neither). Then some number of people might ask for substantiation in the form of party platforms that I supported, or (more simply) ask to see my voter registration card. Suppose I claimed to be a citizen of the United States. I have in the past been asked for proof of that claim (I have a passport). I have even been asked, on occassion, to support the claim that I am Gary Samuelson. But if I, or anybody else, claim to be a Christian, no matter what I believe or how I live my life, that one claim is accepted unquestioned. Especially if the claim can then be used as evidence that Christianity is a bad thing. Why? All any one has to do to determine if a person is a Christian is compare what he or she says and does with what is recorded in the New Testament of Christ's teachings. Now, to anticipate some objections to this simple task: 1. No, Christ's teachings are not confusing. Christianity consists of two things: recognizing who Jesus of Nazereth is, and how, based on that recognition, we ought to live. Some samples: "Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength." "Love your neighbor as yourself." (For definition of 'neighbor', see the parable of the Good Samaritan.) "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." "Pure religion and undefiled before God is this: to visit widows and orphans in their affliction." "Love those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you." 2. No, no one does all of the above perfectly. So what? It isn't all that hard to determine who is or is not trying, is it? 3. No, nothing outside of the New Testament is relevant to deciding who is or is not a Christian. 4. Yes, some of the New Testament is hard to understand. Those parts are likewise irrelevant to the question of who is or is not a Christian. 5. No, this is not the kind of judging that Jesus condemned. He also stated that, "by their fruits you shall know them," and, "by this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another." 6. If you point out that in the final analysis only God knows for certain who does or does not belong to him, you are right. But man has some ability to determine who is or is not a Christian, though not perfectly. Otherwise, how do you know that you are not a Christian? 7. If you say I left out something definitive in the above samples, that will not bother me; this is off the top of my head, and seemed adequate to refute the idea that anyone who claims to be a Christian is one. 8. If you conclude from the above that most people who claim to be Christians are not, that will not bother me, either. At least, not as much as letting you accept everybody's claim without question. 9. If you say that not all who claim to be Christians will accept the New Testament as authoritative in this regard, I have no answer for you. Except that I could likewise claim to be a citizen of Canada instead of the US, and say that Canadian law is not authoritative in this regard. And to ask, if the teachings of Jesus are not authoritative in determining who is a disciple of Jesus, then what is? Gary Samuelson ittvax!bunker!bunkerb!garys