rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (03/28/84)
I think that from a Protestant viewpoint that
there are practices within the Roman Church
that do not have a Scriptural Basis. This to
some portion of Protestant thinkers is the rough
equivalent of saying that these practices are
"UnChristian" however offensive that kind of remark
is. However, to cite Scripture against the practice
of asking the Virgin Mary to intercede for us ( for
example) is to miss a few important points.
(Roman Catholics on the net please correct or rebut
any erroneous ideas I put in Rome's mouth !)
First, Roman Catholics believe more literally in the
Authority of the Church than Protestants do. Further,
the Church claims exegetical authority over the Scriptures.
(i.e. They mean what the Church says they mean).
To get real simple minded about it, the RCC position
is that the "Church produced the Scriptures" and the
Protestant view is "The Scriptures produced the Church."
Essentially, the Word of the Roman Church is equal to the Bible.
Second, the Bibles are different (no Apochrypha or inter-testamental
books in the most Protestant translations)
There are more, but these are sufficient to my point.
To complain that the New Testament teaches that there is "one
mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus.." and
that praying to Mary or any other dead person to pray for you
violates this principle ( please don't bring up the bodily
Ascension of Mary right now...) falls on offended ears
because the CHURCH teaches etc.,etc.....
Like so many things in religion the arguments boil down to
authority questions.
I think that we who are Protestants should be careful about
using terms like "UnChristian" when applied to the various parts
of the Body of Christ.
Try to draw your circle big enough to include as many as possible
who believe that "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God."
"Through a glass darkly..."
Bob Brown {...pur-ee!inuxc!ihnp4!clyde!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ... Cornet 583-3784chavez@harvard.UUCP (R. Martin Chavez) (04/04/84)
Let's not start throwing around Scripture in a vain effort to justify one Christian sect at the expense of another. Read the documents of Vatican II (even Thomas Aquinas still applies) if you REALLY want to know what the Catholic Church teaches; two thousand years of Biblical exegesis can't very well be condensed in a form suitable for our purposes here. For starters, allow me to point out that Catholics do NOT (or at the very least SHOULD NOT, according to the Church's magisterium) worship the Virgin Mary. There's a Greek word -- hyperdulia -- that aptly describes the praise, honor, and loving trust that are Mary's due. As Mother of God, she of all humankind bears an absolutely unique relationship to the Triune God in the person of Jesus, the Christ. God chose her to be the mother of His only-begotten son. The Roman church, then, teaches the prayerful Christian to ask Mary for her INTERCESSION before the Son, not for her mediation between God and man. The distinction is subtle, to be sure, but nonetheless quite important. We merely ask Mary to take our part as advocate and protectress; as one who is merely human and yet the Mother of God, she may beseech her son to show us forgiveness and compassion as only a mother can. But she is NOT a way-station on the route between God and His children, an indispensible link. She has no supernatural powers, no semi-divine nature; she is human and no more. Yet, God has chosen her for a special role in the history of salvation, and we recognize her sanctity by entrusting our prayers to her in the hopes that she will intercede for us to the God of might and mercy. Over the years, European Catholicism has perhaps erred in over-emphasizing the cult of Mary. In today's Church, however, theologians have attempted to clarify Mary's role by returning to the ancient traditions that recognize Mary's unique relationship to the Son without according her the powers of mediation. (Mediation, it seems to me, implies that the Mediator posesses some authority that equals or transcends God's own; clearly, then, only Christ -- if we accept Him as the God-Man -- can qualify for such a dignity.) Hail, Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death. Note that Mary humbles herself in prayer to the Father; she does not and cannot grant petitions on her own, as her son (the only Mediator) surely can. Legend has it that Mary appeared to a poor Indian on a hill in Mexico; she was arrayed in a mantle of stars, the clouds and the moon at her feet; but the splendor of God shone through her, and her hands were folded in supplication. Forgive me for rambling on and on, but I'm tired of hearing the old arguments that condemn Roman Catholicism as apostasy and hypocrisy. Don't quote Scripture at us; we all know that the Bible, as the cultural history of God's Covenant, has been called upon to support every manner of irrational behavior. By trying to understand each other in a spirit of humility and truth, maybe Protestants and Catholics will realize that they have much reason for thanks and little time for rhetoric. R. Martin Chavez