kechkayl@ecn-ee.UUCP (04/04/84)
#R:pucc-h:-63300:ecn-ee:18600012:000:1164 ecn-ee!kechkayl Apr 3 19:08:00 1984 With apologies to Scott, > I was in serious trouble. My grades were lousy, and I was having a lot > of stomachaches, trouble sleeping, and other symptoms of overstrain and > overworry (which I've never had before). I realized I wasn't far away > from a nervous breakdown and got desperate. I finally prayed with an > honest heart "Richard Simmons, if you really exist, I need your help. > Badly." The result was fantastic, and I will swear by most anything you > like that I am not lying. Within 3 days, my emotional stability had > been totally restored and has not been seriously shaken since. My > grades were not wonderful that semester, but pretty good considering > what I went through. After that experience, I had to seriously face the > question of "Is there a Richard Simmons ?" I had always assumed "no". > Then I started praying to him and getting occasional results. Sorry, maybe I'm dense, but substituting the words "Richard Simmons" for "God" produces approximately the above text. If I told you the above, would you take it as evidence that Richard Simmons was God?? Thomas Ruschak pur-ee!kechkayl "Aiee! a toy robot!"
rcd@opus.UUCP (04/05/84)
<> I suppose I could call my response "an ex-theist speaks", but... >A guy came to my room once to witness, >and my roommate and I not only ran him out of the room, but also went >to his room and tried to convert him to atheism! I hope THAT settles >any questions about the "devoutness" of my atheism... No, but it says something about your attitude toward people... > Now, one would think that this "God" would reward me for at least >trying... Not for trying in the sense you did it - sort of an attempt at a "30-day money-back guarantee" on God... >I finally prayed with an >honest heart "God, if you really exist, I need your help. Badly." The >result was fantastic, and I will swear by most anything you like that >I am not lying. Within 3 days, my emotional stability had been totally >restored and has not been seriously shaken since... Pretty shaky causality there. If things are bad enough, they're bound to get better - especially if you want them to. I'm not saying you're crazy; I'm saying that your mind is powerful. >Then I started praying and getting occasional results. Intermittent reinforcement is more effective than consistent reinforcement. Anyone with a background in behavioral psych care to fill in more? > Some of you are probably saying, "Nice story. So what?" First of >all, it is a true story, not a fable... It may well be. What the story seems to point out to me, far more than any possible significance of religious conversion, is the significance of becoming sincere with others and honest with yourself. When you get to college it's time to question the assumptions that you were brought up with. In some cases, this results in turning toward religion; in other cases, turning away. If a better person results, fine either way. -- Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile. {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (04/07/84)
-- >> >Then I started praying and getting occasional results. >> Intermittent reinforcement is more effective than consistent >> reinforcement. >> Anyone with a background in behavioral psych care to fill in more? Well, not quite. Behaviors that have been conditioned through partial reinforcement take longer to learn, and they are more difficult to extinguish than those established through consistent reinforcement, since it is harder to distinguish true withdrawal of the stimulus. Like almost all concepts in psychology, if you can hack the semantics it's simply common sense. Glad that degree isn't going completely to waste: MS, Social Psychology, University of Wisconsin, 1973. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 06 Apr 84 [17 Germinal An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***
aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (04/12/84)
Reply to Thomas Ruschak:
You took part of my testimony, replaced all the occurrences of
"God" with "Richard Simmons", and asked if I would take this as evidence
that Richard Simmons was God?
Well, I would have to ask a few questions:
Has anyone else had this experience?
Does Richard Simmons CLAIM to be God, and does he have
the power to back up what he says?
If this testimony were the only one, I would be very suspicious
of Mr. Simmons and the person giving the testimony. However, Christ has
deeply changed hundreds of thousands of lives all over the world. I
am not alone.
Many people have claimed to be God, but only one (to my know-
ledge) has ever shown He had the power, Jesus of Nazareth. The historians
and archaeologists have long since confirmed the historic accuracy of the
Gospels, particularly the Gospel of Luke. Try reading it if you want to
find out whether Jesus could back up his claims.
One thing you forget Tom, is that I used to be a very hard-headed,
skeptical atheist. Do you not think I thought about several times then
about the very possibility you are talking about? There is a person on
this system I used to resemble greatly, Rich Rosen. If I had been writing
on this system during my atheist days, my letters would have sounded very
much like his. Now Tom, do you think Rich is going to follow anyone who
claims to be God? Do you think he would just throw out everything he
believes in on a whim? Neither would I. Take out a few moments everyone,
and think about what it would take to convert Rich. That's probably
what it took to convince me. Even after my "experience", I was still
skeptical. The difference was that I was now willing to honestly try
to find out whether God exists.
C.S. Lewis was an ardent opponent of Christianity for many years.
He later became one of the finest Christian authors I've ever read. Mike
Warnke was a Satanic High Priest and a drug pusher -- yet he became an
inspiring Christian comedian. Saul of Tarsus was an ardent Jew who put
Christians to death until Jesus spoke to him (literally) on his way to
Damascus. Saul then started preaching the gospel he formerly persecuted.
He became the Apostle Paul, one of the finest of the Apostles, who is
greatly responsible for the fact there are Gentile (not originally Jewish)
Christians today. Tom, none of these people (and myself) were any more
gullible in their pre-Christian days than Rich is now. It took something
powerful to convince any of them. Tom, I've been solidly on both sides,
and I know them both pretty well. I hope you will grant that, given this,
I should be in a good position to make a competent decision. Is YOUR
position anywhere near as good? It's SO easy to criticize anything when
you only know one side.
--
-- Scott Bowyer
{allegra|ihnp4|decvax|harpo|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-i:otvaeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (04/12/84)
On the previous article with this same "Subject": the name in the header is
incorrect; the signature is correct. The article is by Scott Bowyer, not by
me. (Why, oh why, can't you do a "setenv" in a csh script and have it apply
in your login shell? I had "setenv NAME 'Scott Bowyer'" in a csh script to
change NAME and swap .signature files. Alas, I found another UNIX [TM!]
insufficiency....)
--
-- Jeff Sargent
{allegra|ihnp4|decvax|harpo|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
One man's data are another man's garbage.alle@ihuxb.UUCP (Allen England) (04/12/84)
+ > Many people have claimed to be God, but only one (to my know- > ledge) has ever shown He had the power, Jesus of Nazareth. The historians > and archaeologists have long since confirmed the historic accuracy of the > Gospels, particularly the Gospel of Luke. Try reading it if you want to > find out whether Jesus could back up his claims. If you have been reading some of the other articles in this group, you would realize that it is a commonly believed myth that historians and archaeologists have confirmed any truth in the Gospels. --> Allen <-- ihnp4!ihuxb!alle
kechkayl@ecn-ee.UUCP (04/13/84)
#R:pucc-h:-63300:ecn-ee:18600015:000:1492 ecn-ee!kechkayl Apr 13 03:55:00 1984 [ An open letter to Scott Bowyer] Scott, You say that I do not know both sides both sides of the question. This may be true, and it is a fact that I have not know deeply someone who was 'saved', at least in the vocal sense. I do not question your sincerity, merely your causuality. I'm sure we all know of many people whose lives have been 'changed'. Each one of them has his own idea of what 'changed' him. I was merely trying to make the point that other people may attribute 'changes' to other powers. Now, you may have been a raving atheist in your younger days, and you may attribute the good things that have come since to god, but can you justify that connection? I think not. Life, at least in my experience, seem to have its ups and downs. However, I do not attribute each of these changes of fortune to a divine being, or even to Richard Simmons! I take life as it comes, and I am well content. Now it may be true that the Christian god may burn me in hell for all eternity for my 'sins', but , in truth, that doesn't seem to me to be too likely. On, the other hand, Mumbo Jumbo, god of the Congo, may eat your soul for not being true to him, or Richard may force you to exercise forever in torment. However, none of these eventualities may be predicted, for there is no hard evidence for either of them, and so, I will ignore them until the time comes to find out what is beyond death, if indeed anything is. Happy with life, Thomas Ruschak pur-ee!kechkayl