rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (04/12/84)
While so much of the article describing the tenets of humanism (quoting from the Humanist Manifesto) is in accordance with my own beliefs, I still walk away from reading that article thinking that it smacked of a notion of equal respulsiveness to me as the notion of deity worship---the notion of humanity worship. It sounded too much like 19th century romantic ideals of the glory of man (sic) and how (hu)mankind can do anything, etc. We can build giant ships and buildings, and invent new powerful machines, and create a grand society for all to live in. (Yippee!! Praise man!!!) It's easy to extend this notion to "if we're so great, something must have made us this way"/"something is watching over us"/etc. When, in reality, there's no rationalization for either idea. Humans aren't "special" in the sense of superior or better. Just different. Those who worship "the glory of man" are sometimes almost repugnant enough to convince me to turn to religion. (almost!) Larry Bickford (I think) once said that if people choose not to worship god, then they wind up worshipping themselves. I contended that Larry was missing another viable option: don't worship anything; which he contended was an impossibility. Those who promote a religion that worships the glory of humankind lend credence to Larry's position. Wrongly. There is a viable neutral ground that declares "We are here. Not created deliberately by a deity for a specific purpose. Not charged with conquering the vastness of the universe for the glory of the human race. Not slated for a position of subservience to a god, or for a throne on the apex of the world. We're just here. That's all. No purpose, no intent. We're here. Let's make the most of it." -- Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME... Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (04/13/84)
If we are just here...
Got no purpose, Got no ambitions, Got no goals....
What pray tell is the reason we should "make the most of it"??
Bob Brown {...clyde!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ... Cornet 583-3784rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (04/16/84)
> If we are just here... > Got no purpose, Got no ambitions, Got no goals.... > What pray tell is the reason we should "make the most of it"?? My article never mentioned a lack of ambitions or goals, it simply denied that there was a "purpose" for which we were created, as defined by religious texts and what have you. Individuals, and the society as a whole, define the ambitions and goals. That's what making the most of it means. Interesting. I've always thought that the hidden agenda in religion is "Uh, oh, the evidence shows that there's no purpose for which we were put here, no creator watching over us, no external reason for our existence. Therefore to have a reason to live, we have to work to convince others (and ourselves) that there is such a reason, such a purpose, such a creator, otherwise our lives are meaningless. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant. Without the reason/purpose/creator, what's the point? Therefore there MUST be a reason/purpose/creator." Truth doesn't matter much to such a philosophy. To give life meaning, to make *me* meaningful (anthropocentrism), there MUST be a creator who gave my life purpose, right? Realizing that such a purpose/creator is irrelevant (and probably non-existent) forces us to define our own purposes (purpi???), our own ambitions, our own goals, and to "make the most of" what we've got. You don't like life?? You feel it only has meaning if a creator is introduced into the equation?? So you just introduce one, poof, there he is, my life now has meaning. I like life, and I set my own goals and purposes, thank you. -- Now I've lost my train of thought. I'll have to catch the bus of thought. Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
labelle@hplabsc.UUCP (WB6YZZ Labelle) (04/16/84)
Most of us make the best of it because "we are just here" !
It is instinctual to preserve ones self. Once the basic neccessi-
ties are met, we seem to have a driving curiosity and need to feel even
more pleasant. Whats wrong with that?
There is no need to have a GOD. The only reason you think there
is, is because you have the ability to think you do! And it is a simple
answer to a very complex question which after accepting god you don't
have to worry about any longer.
GEORGE alle@ihuxb.UUCP (Allen England) (04/17/84)
+ > If we are just here... > Got no purpose, Got no ambitions, Got no goals.... > What pray tell is the reason we should "make the most of it"?? > Bob Brown {...clyde!akgua!rjb} Try this, We are here... We have no predefined purpose, no predefined ambitions, no predefined goals... Define some! Why do you need God to give you a reason to live? --> Allen <-- ihnp4!ihuxb!alle
rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (04/17/84)
> Why do you need God to give you a reason to live?
How did we make the leap from my questions about Rich's
statements on "We are just here....make the most of it"
to Allen's question stated above??
In this life I assume we are talking about optimization
once we get past survival. I think billions of people
have had reasons to live/survive without God.
However, optimizing this life for me includes the Triune
God of Christianity...in fact centers on Him.
How can I answer your question Allen ?? I've tried life
with and without Him. It's that stupid, non-logical
come-back that my life has been changed very positively..
I hope what your using works for you....
Bob Brown {...clyde!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ... Cornet 583-3784