rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (06/07/84)
Subject: - UPI Article on "82 have died at cult based on faith
healing"
Quoted in part without permission...
Fort Wayne, Ind. - "Seventeen more deaths have occcurred among members
of the Faith Assembly, a northern Indiana sect that urges its members
to avoid doctors and rely on faith for healing, newspaper documents show
The sect has averaged about one preventable death a month since 1978,...
...several infant deaths following unattended deliveries.
Dan Foley, administrative assistant to the attorney general...
`Until officials take the bull by the horns and say enough is enough
,we respect your religious
beliefs but they are not your children's beliefs, those deaths are
going to continue.'
`It's one thing to have religious immunity for yourself. Men and women
make that decision every day. Our feeling is children are put in the
position of not having the information, the experience, the knowledge,
the age, the experience to make those decisions.'
A new law took effect Friday (ED. in Indiana) which requires parents
with religious objections to medical care to report their children's
illnesses to child welfare officials.
Foley said Atty. Gen'l Linley Pearson is convinced prosecutors can file
criminal charges against parents who refuse to give their
children medical care."
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Looking at the way totaltarians view children in society is very in-
structive relative to the Indiana Law. Hitler maintained
that children
belonged to the state and that is also a well established principle
in the "Constitution" (gag, choke) of the USSR.
Who "owns" my kids ? I believe that the Government DOES NOT own my
children and neither do I. My wife and I are stewards of my three
boys and we WILL answer to God for our stewardhip. I will resist
on almost any level I can the Government interference in that
stewardship.
Healing - I believe that all healing whether miraculous or medical
comes from God. He designed our bodies to be well. The only qualif-
ier I put on "healing" is that it not be occultic or satanic in
nature. My personal test for that would be "Is God getting the Glory
for the healing ?" and "Is any Fruit of the Spirit being manifested ?"
Glorifying the Lord and producing the Fruit of the Spirit are two
things the devil won't do and can't do respectively.
If you look at the quotes from the Indiana official you can hear the
echoes of the Third Reich loud and clear.
I think Faith Assembly folks are wrong in their position to reject
all medical help but they should have that right.
The sticky problem is we allow the Government (usually state or local)
to intrude in cases of overt "child abuse" like battering and sexual
misconduct and once in the arena the Government tends to redefine the
term "abuse". I think that's the case in the Indiana situation.
Pamela Hamilton, the young Tennessee girl with cancer, had a similar
experience over the past year with court ordered chemotherapy.
Her father, a minister in another similar sect, made remarks
reminiscent of the German experience "They came for the
Jews and I was not a Jew so I did nothing.."
I urge opposition to these laws even though it opens up the probability
that innocent children will suffer because of parental foolishness.
Freedom, to be meaningful, must include the freedom to be badly wrong
even to the detriment of others.
Of course there are accountability systems
built into our society ( courts etc.) so that we have that razor edge
balance between freedom and responsibility.
Your Turn
Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ... Cornet 583-3784alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll) (06/08/84)
> ... > > Who "owns" my kids ? I believe that the Government DOES NOT own my > children and neither do I. My wife and I are stewards of my three > boys and we WILL answer to God for our stewardhip. I will resist > on almost any level I can the Government interference in that > stewardship. > > ... > > The sticky problem is we allow the Government (usually state or local) > to intrude in cases of overt "child abuse" like battering and sexual > misconduct and once in the arena the Government tends to redefine the > term "abuse". I think that's the case in the Indiana situation. Are you saying that beating a child constitues "abuse", while letting a child die needlessly doesn't? I think you're the one who is trying to redefine the term, and I don't like your definition at all. > I urge opposition to these laws even though it opens up the probability > that innocent children will suffer because of parental foolishness. We're not talking about a little suffering here. We're talking about a wasted life. You and I would disagree on many, many things, but I'm surprised we can't agree on the value of human life. > Freedom, to be meaningful, must include the freedom to be badly wrong > even to the detriment of others. No, no, no! Freedom, to be meaningful, must include the freedom to be badly wrong, even to the detriment of oneself. (This is why I oppose laws against "victimless" crimes, such as drug abuse and prostitution. The question isn't whether these things are good or bad. The question is, what right does the government have to stop anyone from doing such things?) However, for freedom to be meaningful, it must also include responsibility. Your freedom to act ends where my freedom not to be acted on begins. The crucial issue here is that this new law protects person A from the actions of person B. It does nothing to stop person B from hurting him or herself. -- Alan S. Driscoll AT&T Bell Laboratories
alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll) (06/08/84)
[] In a previous article, Bob Brown argued for personal freedom, even at the cost of an innocent child's life. However, in a private communication, he defended laws against prostitution, on the grounds that it is a "public nuisance"! Does Mr. Brown really believe in personal freedom? I doubt it. There's too strong a correlation between one's religious values and Mr. Brown's concern for one's freedom. -- Alan S. Driscoll AT&T Bell Laboratories
ab3@stat-l (Rsk the Wombat) (06/12/84)
Well, there has been quite a stir here in Indiana over this; I'd
imagine you folks out there in civilized states [ :-) ] have been hearing
about it too...good story for the 10 o'clock dirty laundry report.
I find the denial of medical care to children by some of these folks
roughly equivalent to the behavior of those parents at Jonestown who poisoned
their children. Sure, one is passive and one is active, but the result is that
a child suffers, and perhaps dies, without having a voice in the process, either
because the child is too young to understand, or because the child is
subservient to the will of its parents.
This isn't new; some folks deny medical care on religious grounds;
some deny public school education; some deny music; and so on...I don't think
I would question a parent's right to restrict television viewing or sports
activities on religious grounds; but I think we have to draw the line when
parents begin to let their children die for their (the parent's) religion.
And, yes, it can be argued that this is a government intrusion. Tough,
I say to the parents involved; if you're going to refuse to treat your child
properly, we're going to take them away. See you in court. Let's see you
convince a jury that your "freedom of religion", as you'll probably call it,
is worth a child's life. Wanna make a side bet on the outcome?
--
Rsk the Wombat
UUCP: { allegra, decvax, ihnp4, harpo, teklabs, ucbvax } !pur-ee!rsk
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