amra@ihuxj.UUCP (Steven L. Aldrich) (06/13/84)
Here are some additional replies I've recieved and wish to share.
I wish to THANK EVERYONE who has sent in their opinions/info/facts
on the subject of hermaphroditism. The replies have ALL been of
superior quality, both in content and style, with a lot of
interesting thoughts. The reaction is better than I'd hoped for.
Thanks Once More for your thoughts and input, I've learned a good
deal on this subject already. If anybody has additional comments/
views/opinions/facts/useful info, please feel free to either
send EMAIL to IHNP4!IHUXJ!AMRA or POST TO the news group. Always
willing to listen to the opinion of others.(Even if we DON'T agree
on everything.)
Well that's enough rambling on my part, on to the replies.....
I've used "*"'s to seperate each reply. The only thing
deleted from these are 'header' lines. They are complete
and un-altered otherwise. Happy Reading .......
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From: neal@denelcor.UUCP (Neal Weidenhofer)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.social,net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Questions on hermaphroditism (Probably offensive to somebody )
Article-I.D.: denelcor.466
Posted: Fri Jun 8 19:44:41 1984
Organization: Denelcor, Aurora, CO
>Question: would such a child have genetic makeup more closely
>identical to that of his parent than the child of identical twins?
>
>Wendy [NO NUKES! TURN OFF THE SUN!]
Sorry, Wendy. Identical twins are always of the same sex.
Regards,
Neal Weidenhofer
"Nothin' ain't worth nothin' Denelcor, Inc.
but it's free" <hao|csu-cs|brl-bmd>!denelcor!neal
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From: ir128@sdccs6.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.social,net.philosophy,net.bio
Subject: Re: Questions on hermaphroditism
Posted: Mon Jun 11 05:34:55 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 11-Jun-84 15:49:18 EDT
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Computer Center
In medical school I saw only one true hermaphrodite, a child of about
4 years old. Diagnostic tests had confirmed ovaries and testes, but
the latter were undecended and rudimentary. Because of the rarity of
true hermaphrodites the literature is very scanty about the
functioning of both sets of gonads. However, because of the hormonal
complexity of spermatogensis and ovulation simultaneous production of
viable sperm and ova appear to be TECHNICALLY impossible.
(I took the original questions about masturbation-incest-etc to be
about LOGICAL possibilities--philosophical questions about the meaning
of the terms involved.)
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{ ED. NOTE: HOW RIGHT YOU ARE!! ANYONE CARE TO ADDRESS THIS
ASPECT OF MY QUESTIONS??? --Steve A. }
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From: dyer@wivax.UUCP (Stephen Dyer)
Newsgroups: net.social
Subject: Re: hermaphrodites
Posted: Sun Jun 10 20:08:19 1984
Organization: Wang Institute, Tyngsboro, Ma. 01879
Discussing human "hermaphrodites" and the moral issues implied is a bit
like discussing the biology of unicorns, wouldn't you say?
"True" hermaphroditism, such as that seen in lower animals such as snails,
simply doesn't exist in humans. There are instances of people with hormonal
(and occasionally chromosomal) problems who are labelled colloquially as
hermaphrodites, but that is generally derived only from the appearance of
the person's primary and secondary sex characteristics. There are NO
reported instances of people with both male and female sex organs which
are fully functional (and I always used to wonder, where would it all fit
if there were?)
It's time to take the hermaphrodite out of the laboratory, where it always
eludes geneticists and doctors, and back into the world of mythology,
religion and symbols, where it has thrived for centuries.
--
/Steve Dyer
decvax!bbncca!sdyer
sdyer@bbncca.ARPA
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Date: 8 Jun 84 15:47:21 EDT (Fri)
Original-From: Ted Emigh <emigh@ecsvax>
Subject: Re: ihuxj.532: Questions on hermaphroditism (Probably offensive to somebody )
Location: Genetics and Statistics, N.C. State University
Address: {decvax akgua unc duke ihnp4}!mcnc!ecsvax!emigh
Arpanet: decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!emigh@BERKELEY.ARPA
1) Incest is a social definition defined in a the absence of there being
functional hermaphrodites. The social definition is often at odd with
genetic relationships, but a genetic definition of incest would include
selfing.
2) Again, the definition was developed in the absence of hermaphrodites.
A new term would have to be developed.
3) This would not be a form of cloning. Many plants, etc are self-
fertilizing. The probability the the offspring will have the exact
same genotype as the parent (necessary for cloning) is vanishingly
small.
4) We already have human clones--identical twins. Noone seems to be
bothered by it.
--Ted--
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From: g-rh@cca.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: True hermaphrodites
Date: Sun, 10-Jun-84 00:27:14 CDT
Organization: Computer Corp America, Cambridge
[]
Someone stated that there has never been a recorded case (in
their knowledge) of a true hermaphrodite in the sense of having
functional testes and ovaries. The following is from "Where Death
Delights" by Marshall Houts, Dell Books 9469, 1968, which is about
the career and interesting cases of Dr. Milton Helpern, Chief
Medical Examiner of the City of New York, 1954 - ??. (Dr. Helpern
became an assistant medical examiner in 1931. He personally
performed between 16,000 to 18,000 autopsies and participated in
aproximately 42,000 to 45,000 additional autopsies. I quote
from page 245.
"Exhibit 283 consists of a single ovary, a fallopian
tube and uterus, and a tube running to the anus. This is an
unusual anatomical arrangement in any woman, but this particular
specimen came from the body of a fifty-seven-year-old man who was
killed in an automobile accident. He functioned well as a day
laborer all of his adult life, and was a good husband and father
to his two children. His wife described his as 'not much of a
doctoring man'; and fortunately for the medical profession, he did
seek medical treatment or advice during life for his single ailment.
His problem was, his wife explained, that 'about once a month'
he suffered from 'those bleeding piles.' This condition
gradually corrected itself when he reached the age of about
forty-seven or forty-eight. The episodes of bleeding became
spaced over longer and more irregular periods until they ceased
altogether. The autopsy disclosed no hemorrhoids of any size
sufficient to account for a long history of 'bleeding piles'.
Presumably, his anatomical anomaly caused him to menstruate
until he apparently went through a menopause, at which time the
menstrual periods ceased altogether."
Presumably it was not possible to tell from the
autopsy whether the subject would have been fertile as a
mother -- it was already established that the subject was
fertile as a father.
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Well I hope you've enjoyed reading through this, if you
care to express your opinion, send it to IHNP4!IHUXJ!AMRA
or post to this news group. I will do my utmost to reply
in a timely manner, but it may take a couple days to get
a reply. be assured though that I do READ & APPRECIATE
everything I recieve.
It is also interesting to note that so far many, (if not
most), of the more vocal participants on this net have been
exceptionally quiet on this issue. Could it be that they don't
have anything to say on this topic?? [ :-) ]
PEACE & BEST WISHES
Steve Aldrich
ihnp4!ihuxj!amraphaedrus@eneevax.UUCP (06/13/84)
Are there any fully functional hermaphrodites in nature?
--
Without hallucinogens, life itself would be impossible.
ARPA: phaedrus%eneevax%umcp-cs@CSNet-Relay
UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!eneevax!phaedrus