aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (07/19/84)
Many skeptics begin by assuming that the physical world as perceived by our
physical senses is real. Where do they get this notion? From the Western
Judaeo-Christian tradition! It has been wisely pointed out that the Eastern
countries, in which major religious beliefs (as far as I know) consider the
physical world to be an illusion, did not develop science as the Western
countries did. Why did the West beat the East into science? Because the
Western Judaeo-Christian tradition views the world as real and as orderly,
and thus as having definite properties which can be discovered. Numerous
scientists of a few centuries ago, who did the truly basic research which
led to science's present-day heights, believed that they were following in
God's footsteps, thinking His thoughts after Him, as they discovered the
properties of the physical world. Even Einstein, while not a standard
Christian (or standard anything), yet had some belief in God based at least
partly on his observations of the physical world.
There is a fine irony in the fact that the basic assumption of many who deny
Christianity is firmly rooted in the belief system they are trying to deny!
--
-- Jeff Sargent
{allegra|decvax|harpo|ihnp4|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
"...got to find my corner of the sky."ab3@pucc-h (Rsk the Wombat) (07/20/84)
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, Jeff.
"They" (the westerners who chose to consider the palpable world
visible to the senses as reality) got the idea from the ancient
Greek philosophers. "They" then have continued to defend it
against Judeo-Christian dogma right up until the present. Include
in "they", people like Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Priestley,
and, yes indeedy, Einstein.
Ol' Albert certainly had his religious beliefs, but he kept them
far away from his physics; he trusted his mathematics over his
theology.
--
Rsk the Wombat
UUCP: { decvax, icalqa, ihnp4, inuxc, sequent, uiucdcs } !pur-ee!rsk
{ decwrl, hplabs, icase, psuvax1, siemens, ucbvax } !purdue!rsk
Hey, baby, don'tcha wanna go,
Back to that same old place,
Sweet Home Chicago.david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (07/20/84)
[This line is but the image of an ideal line]
The ancient Greeks all materialists? It just ain't so.
Our perception of the physical world being real is very Aristotelian.
However, Platonists would argue our physical world is just a shadow of
an ideal reality. It all depends onw which ancient Greek you happen to
ask.
David Rubin
{allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!davidbrianp@shark.UUCP (Brian Peterson) (07/21/84)
#H From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
#H Subject: empirical skeptics' basic assumption
#H Lines: 22
Not no more!
#H
#H Many skeptics begin by assuming that the physical world as perceived by our
#H physical senses is real. Where do they get this notion? From the Western
#H Judaeo-Christian tradition!
And where do you think the J-C's got the notion? I assume that even they
pay attention to what illusions sneak in through their eyeballs when
they aren't looking.
#H ...
#H There is a fine irony in the fact that the basic assumption of many who deny
#H Christianity is firmly rooted in the belief system they are trying to deny!
#H -- Jeff Sargent
Maybe those many aren't denying that Christianity is based on things that
people saw and heard, but are denying the stories that Christians make up
to explain what they see and hear.
Brian Peterson {ucbvax, ihnp4, } !tektronix!shark!brianplaura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (07/21/84)
Sorry Jeff, but you are wrong. The principle of objective reality came out of Greece, not Judea. Various Jewish enclaves which did not get Hellenized provide a contrast with the Jews which most people are familiar with. Thanks to the Roman Empire, Greek thought got spread around a lot. Not all Greek thought was what we might call today ``materialism''. The Stoics would have gotten on rather well with the Hindus (who were around at the same time) and later with the Buddhists (when Buddhism started up.) They didn't get along with the followers of Aristotle at all from all reports. (Stoicism lasted a long time.) What the Pythagoreans were doing is still more or less a mystery, since they were a very secret society. What is very interesting is that all of these conflicting philosophies were able to coexist in more-or-less harmony. Considering the extremes involved, it is a pretty impressive accomplishment. Laura Creighton utzoo!laura
nxs@fluke.UUCP (Bruce Golub) (08/09/84)
Sorry if this is a little late (summertime and the living is easy ...)
Well Jeff, two points for a good try but:
>the west beat the east into science ?<
Time to get out the shovels. The discovery of gunpowder, the invention of the
first sismograph, the first compasses and sextent, the first planeterium,
the first ....
Now it may be true that the east has had a breif repose for the last 1000
years, but who wouldn't after 5000 years of scientific achievment.
But then, maybe no one cares,
Bruce Golub
John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.