[net.religion] Gender of God -- More or less than a person?

garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary Samuelson) (08/17/84)

Rich Rosen remarks:
	I thought god was "depersonalized".

AHA!  If I thought that, I wouldn't be interested in God, either.
The term "depersonalized" suggests something less than a person.
Perhaps a better term would be "superpersonalized."

If you think that humanity is the best (or most intelligent, or
most powerful, or most whatever) that there is, then it follows
that anything (God included) would be less than human.

But if you think that humanity is imperfect, and that there is
therefore the possibility that something better exists, then
something (such as God) could be more than human.

God has feelings, too.

Gary Samuelson
bunker!garys		"What is UNDER the brick?"

bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas ) (08/18/84)

If, as Scripture says, [Mm]an is made in the image of God, then
the idea of personality originates with God, and not with men.
God is thus a person, and we are persons because of having been
created like [Hh]im, instead of God being a person or not being
a person based on whether or not he is like us, or whether we
think he is like us.  Sexuality is also his idea, and we are
sexual beings, but like everything else, I believe that this has
some meaning.  Many of the scriptures quoted in this discussion
imply that the idea of human sexuality derive from God's relation-
ship with Man.  God's idea is also that we should have something
like equality with him by identifying with us through coming to
earth to live as one of us.  It is also Jesus that he wants to 
be the answer to all of the questions about what God is like.
Jesus is likewise the closest thing you are going to get to an
objective proof that God even exists.  He either was what he said
he was(God in human flesh) or he was a liar.  We may all be liars,
but if Jesus told the truth, you can trust him.
(My God, what WAS I talking about...?)

Sorry about the ramble.  Hope you get the point(s).  Love ya.

from over the rainbow of

	we53!bmt(Brian M. Thomas @ AT&T Technologies, St. Louis, MO)
	If you think I'm nuts, you're not the only one.

rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (08/18/84)

> Rich Rosen remarks:
> 	I thought god was "depersonalized".
> 
> AHA!  If I thought that, I wouldn't be interested in God, either.
> The term "depersonalized" suggests something less than a person.
> Perhaps a better term would be "superpersonalized." [GARY SAMUELSON]

Or "non-personalized".  But whether or not you'd be interested in a deity
doesn't change what its actual character is, does it?  

> If you think that humanity is the best (or most intelligent, or
> most powerful, or most whatever) that there is, then it follows
> that anything (God included) would be less than human.
> But if you think that humanity is imperfect, and that there is
> therefore the possibility that something better exists, then
> something (such as God) could be more than human.

Our being imperfect doesn't imply that there *is* something more perfect.
That's nothing (nothing) but wishful thinking.

> God has feelings, too.

Isn't that just as anthropocentric as given god (virtual) genitals?
(... and a beard)
-- 
If it doesn't change your life, it's not worth doing.     Rich Rosen  pyuxn!rlr

aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (08/24/84)

From Rich Rosen:

>> Rich Rosen remarks:
>> 	I thought god was "depersonalized".
>> 
>> AHA!  If I thought that, I wouldn't be interested in God, either.
>> The term "depersonalized" suggests something less than a person.
>> Perhaps a better term would be "superpersonalized." [GARY SAMUELSON]

> Or "non-personalized".  But whether or not you'd be interested in a deity
> doesn't change what its actual character is, does it?  

You do not know God.  Why do you think you have a better idea of His actual
character than those of us who have met Him?

> Our being imperfect doesn't imply that there *is* something more perfect.
> That's nothing (nothing) but wishful thinking.

Then where did we get the idea of "perfect"?  If imperfection was all that
existed, how could we possibly form any concept of perfection?  I think the
wishful thinking is on your side; you don't want there to be a God, since He
would change your life in ways you might not want.  Sometimes I feel the same
way about Him, even now.  But what else is there?  Jesus once looked over a
dispersing crowd and said to His disciples, "Will you also go away?"  Peter
replied, "Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the words of eternal life."

>> God has feelings, too.

> Isn't that just as anthropocentric as given god (virtual) genitals?
> (... and a beard)

God wants us to know Him as best we can, so He manifests Himself in ways that
we can understand, culminating in becoming a man Himself, complete with real
genitals and beard.  His appearance in visions with beard (e.g. Daniel 7) was
just to render Himself comprehensible to His audience.  Finally, we are made
in His image; as it were, we are statues of Him.  Thus our characteristics
(except sinfulness) are a dim indication of His, not to mention the fact that
He Himself is represented numerous times in the Bible as having emotions; so,
to the best of our understanding of Him, God does have feelings.

-- 
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
[the man with the cornrowed chest hair :-)]

jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (08/28/84)

	From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
	Subject: Re: Gender of God -- More or less than a person?

	You do not know God.  Why do you think you have a better idea
	of His actual character than those of us who have met Him?

Oh.... excuse us.  It's quite plain now that only a select few
(such as yourself) have been privilaged to see the true
nature of God.

Why do YOU think you have a better idea of his character when you have
only met him?  Just how many years DOES it take to grasp and understand
the infinite?  So sure you are that it was God you met, and not the
reflection in a mirror.


	Then where did we get the idea of "perfect"?  If imperfection
	was all that existed, how could we possibly form any concept of
	perfection?

This is the same mistake that Plato made, and you've taken it hook, line
and sinker.  Are you telling me that it is impossible for me to imagine
ANYTHING that does not already exist in the temporal world?  I can
conceive of MANY things, often things that could never exist, yet
they DO exist... in my imagination.

Perfection is what you imagine it to be.  Everyone has his own idea
of what heaven is like, and no two will be exactly the same.  Perfection
is relative to the individual, and constructed upon the basis of his
past experiences and ideas.  That's how it could possibly be done.

	I think the wishful thinking is on your side; you don't want
	there to be a God,

That's what I think of people who say they've met God or know God
intimately.  They rush head-long to the conclusion that most appeals
to them... that they have experienced some sort of personal and
meaningfull communion with the diety.  What is required here is a healthy
sense of what is real and what might very well be your own thoughts.

	His appearance in visions with beard (e.g. Daniel 7) was
	just to render Himself comprehensible to His audience.

Which implies that your intimate relationship with God is in fact
a relationship with a false-front of his, since you have just stated
that God is essentially incomprehensible.  If God IS putting up
such a false front, then there is little to be learned of his true
nature since these are images of what WE want him to be.... what is
palatable to us (His audience).


					"My first name"
					- Speaker
					umcp-cs!speaker