[net.religion] christians are not saints

gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (09/01/84)

I'd like to see this discussion continued in net.religion, pleeeease ...

> From: russ@ihuxi.UUCP (Russell Spence)

>> From: rainbow@ihuxe.UUCP
>> Christians=saints??? No way. As a loyal church goer for 18 years, I have 
>> seen both sides of the fence. I have decided non-christians are a better 
>> class of people. Of course there are exceptions, so please spare me the
>> flames. But the so called christians I was associated with had such low
>> ethics and morals that I couldn't stand the hypocrisy anymore. I find 
>> non-christians much more understanding and considerate as a whole.
>> The christians acted so aloof that they thought they could do anything
>> because of course they would be forgiven. Like they had a free pass to 
>> do evil. It made me sick with disgust. If these people are saints, well,
>> I want nothing to do with them. Give me the "sinners" any day. I'd rather
>> associate with them for the honest frienships they give me.

> While I have found that many Christians are nice people, in some it seemed
> that their 'niceness' was very shallow because of their beliefs.  They
> used Christianity to avoid their problems rather than facing them.  By
> selective association and a limiting of activities they avoid anything
> that is a temptation or a threat to their beliefs.  They retain a very
> close-minded attitude.  

It is not "close-minded" to refuse to do things that you do not find essential
to your well-being.

> I have to agree with Robert that I have usually found non-Christians to
> be a better class of people, but I would like to qualify that by saying
> that this does not include all non-Christians, but those who were ex-
> posed to Christianity and made an informed decision to reject it (or
> at least reject the general interpretation of it).

Serious question:
What *is* the general interpretation of Christianity?  I have found many prob-
lems with people I have met who are non-Christians who seem to have this low
opinion of Christians.  This is serious indeed, because if we are supposed to
be the light of the world (saints take note) we should not be held in such
contempt by our fellow humans.

> In my experience, it is the people with the best character and highest 
> standards that reject the church, and for very good reason.  It is precisely 
> this type of person who hates hypocracy and shallowness. 

Well, I hate hypocrisy and shallowness.  And it is true, it can be found in the
Church.  I had the misfortune of attending the services at a church which
appeared to be very Christian on the outside (they were very friendly, gave 
visitors food after the services, invited us to Bible studies, visited us in
our dorm rooms) but had a lot of non-Christian practices (for example, a friend
of mine was told not to go home after joining their church because they thought
his parents were going to try and "convert" him back to his old denomination).
This doesn't mean all of Christianity is bad, it just means that certain people
have incorrect interpretations of the Bible.  Sad, but true.  Saints, we have
to do something about this.

> There also seems to be a growing group of very good and honest people who just
> don't want to have anything to do with Christianity.  I think that this 
> syndrome is just another symptom of the failure of the Christian church to 
> keep up with modern values.  (or perhaps a lack of the integrity necessary 
> to maintain its own values in the face of the modern world).

Well, let's consider some of the "modern values":

Legalized abortions
2/3 marriages ending in divorce
Escalating crime rates -- criminal laws favoring the criminals

There are more, however I think a point has been made.  It seems to me that 
modern values have outgrown Christianity (I guess that's another way of 
putting what you said).  If so, well good then, because I wouldn't want
Christianity condoning stated above behavior.
-- 
Hug me till you drug me, honey!

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo

dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (09/06/84)

> [Greg Skinner]
> This doesn't mean all of Christianity is bad, it just means that certain
> people have incorrect interpretations of the Bible.  Sad, but true.
> Saints, we have to do something about this.

Such as?
-- 
Paul DuBois		{allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois

Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage forever: for they
are the rejoicing of my heart.
					Psalm 119:111