[net.religion] Playboy, honestly

gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (09/07/84)

[I'd like to see this continue in net.religion]

>> I do think that reading Playboy is unlikely to bring one closer to God.
>> And I haven't the slightest inclination or desire to read it. [Paul DuBois]

Neither do I.  I think we all basically agree, judging from the repsonses
to Trish's article on VW, that such magazines are degrading to women.

> Actually, you're right...usually.  Every once in a while, God can even use
> Playboy to zap one with an insight into a twist in one's own feelings about
> relationships, sexuality, or whatever.  [Jeff Sargent]

If you mean "after I read Playboy I discovered that I wasn't interested in
seeing women degraded in that manner" I would agree.

> I could comment that you don't need Playboy, since you have access to a woman
> who is beautiful to you (I have no idea of her physical appearance, but she's
> certainly beautiful to you) at any time you reasonably desire -- and not just
> to a view of her, but to her reality.  Of course, in order for you to not need
> or want to examine Playboy, this would also imply that you are strong enough
> to handle having a real woman in your life, who may not always behave quite 
> the way you would most want, and who has some degree of control over you -- 
> distinct from fantasies (with or without the aid of photos), which you control
> entirely.  More power to you!  I'm not sure I'm at that point; the thought of
> having an SO, now that I examine it more closely, is frightening. 
> [Jeff Sargent]

Question for Paul DuBois:  Are you married?

Seriously though, Jeff has brought up a valid point.  If he is married, then
he doesn't need Playboy obviously.  In general though, I think the point is
that those Christians who are married have a distinct advantage that they can
have sex with their SOs and not feel guilty.  But what about us Christians
who aren't married and have to keep our hormones on a leash?
-- 
Hug me till you drug me, honey!

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo

aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (09/12/84)

>> Actually, you're right...usually.  Every once in a while, God can even use
>> Playboy to zap one with an insight into a twist in one's own feelings about
>> relationships, sexuality, or whatever.  [Jeff Sargent]

> If you mean "after I read Playboy I discovered that I wasn't interested in
> seeing women degraded in that manner" I would agree.  [Greg Skinner]

Actually I am coming more and more to that point; but I was actually referring
to the fact that occasionally a Playboy article will make a point that will
alert me to some area of psychological wrongness inside myself.

-- 
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK (it couldn't stand it there any longer).

gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (09/21/84)

> From: rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn)
> > >> I do think that reading Playboy is unlikely to bring one closer to God.
> > >> And I haven't the slightest inclination or desire to read it. 
> [Paul DuBois]
> > 
> > Neither do I.  I think we all basically agree, judging from the repsonses
> > to Trish's article on VW, that such magazines are degrading to women. (me)

> Like it or not, there are some worthwhile things in Playboy (or at
> least there used to be:-).  There's also some trash.  PARTS of the magazine
> are degrading to women.  Actually, Playboy as I recall it significantly
> overlaps Bon Appetit, Road and Track, maybe a bit of the New Yorker.  Best
> sort out what's there...but that's not my main point...

Well, not being an avid reader of Playboy, I really can't say whether is it
worthwhile or not.  I have heard comments by others that the articles are good
reading material, but what I was commenting on, mostly, was the nudity.

> >> I could comment that you don't need Playboy, since you have access to a 
> >> woman who is beautiful to you (I have no idea of her physical appearance, 
> >> but she's certainly beautiful to you) at any time you reasonably desire --
> >> and not just to a view of her, but to her reality... [Jeff Sargent]

> I find it hard to believe that Greg (>) is willing to take shots at Playboy
> as being degrading to women, without using a tactical nuke on this (>>=Jeff)
> opinion.  If believing that having "access to a woman...at any time you
> reasonably desire..." isn't degrading, I can't imagine what is!

Well, ok, I see your point.  Perhaps the wording of Jeff's article is degrading,
but I don't think that was his intent.  I think I misread his posting, and
associated it with married vs. non-married (read on) ...

> And further on the same discussion...
> > Seriously though, Jeff has brought up a valid point.  If he is married, then
> > he doesn't need Playboy obviously.  In general though, I think the point is
> > that those Christians who are married have a distinct advantage that they 
> > can have sex with their SOs and not feel guilty.  But what about us 
> > Christians who aren't married and have to keep our hormones on a leash? (me)

> First off, could you tell me just what need it is that is satisfied by both
> a wife and Playboy magazine?  

I think I have erred here.  What I was probably getting at was that once one is
married, one is able to make love to one's partner, relieving one of the necess-
ity of looking at Playboy or what-have-you.  (I know that it is not necessary
to be married to make love to someone, but this is an accepted rule by most
Christians.)  In retrospect, I realize that it's not necessary to turn to
Playboy or anything else to satisfy one's needs (I don't).
 
> If Christianity vs hormones is a problem, I suggest that you look again to
> your religion.  It better have an answer for you, because the hormones are
> there just as they should be, doing what they're supposed to do.  I'll give
> you one clue:  "Ignore them" ain't a useful answer.

Since it has been said that this discussion doesn't belong in net.singles,
I'll refrain from comment here, and continue on in net.religion (when I'm
more awake).
-- 
Hug me till you drug me, honey!

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,harvard,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo