[net.religion] generalized reply

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (09/26/84)

There are several observations to be drawn from Mr. Wingate's article.
1.) he is clearly interested and thoughtful about these issues as
evidenced by his contribution to the net. I salute him for that.
2.) it seems to me that there is an underlying trust in men (experts
and theologians) rather than in God and/or the ancient writings. This
is so because he has no direct knowledge of those writings and, since
knowledge of God is frequently linked to knowledge of these writings,
no direct knowledge of God. I am deliberately exaggerating the point
in order to show the contrast between trusting God vs.men and between
trusting the genuine ancient writings vs. men. I wish to show the
contrast in these and then retract any link to Mr. Wingate. In other
words, I wish to show this contrast in general without any real
reference to Mr. Wingate personally.
3.) It is my feeling that the reader would be thoroughly traumatized
if s/he became aware of the feebleness of the "experts" and "real
theologians". I've taken the pains bring these issues before chaplains
and "real theologians" - and even before some of the leading scholars
in the field. In point of fact, these issues are nothing more than
a compendium of findings from a number of those leading scholars.
The "experts" and "real theologians" sputter, mutter, poo-poo,
ignore, fume, rant and change the subject. The scholars will give
you a rather bored "yes, there's nothing new there; we all know
that". And they are right. Unfortunately, not much filters down
through the religious "pseudo-scholar" theologian. I rather take
offense that you would suggest I go to them for answers. I spent
decades looking for answers. I found pretty much what there is to
be found. I certainly would not look to chaplains nor the average
theologian for the answer to anything!
4.) Since there have been other requests, I'll append an abridged
compendium of the previous articles. 
5.) Due to my workload and the interest which has been generated in
these issues, I am unable to devote the time to in-depth explanations
to every inquiry - particularly when there are thousands of potential
questions (there have been more mail inquiries than net articles
obviously). I hope everyone will understand that the best I can do
frequently is to pose a pertinent question and where to find the
answer. How much (and whether) the reader learns will be dependent
upon the effort the reader puts into it. At least you will have
been afforded the opportunity. I wish I could do more.
6.) Questions/challenges which seem more argumentative than
relevant will simply be ignored.

Abridged compendium of previous articles follows...


Having spent several years translating both the Tanakh and the
"New Testament" (more appropriately the writings of the N'tzarim
sect of Jews), I'm always amazed at how much confidence is placed
in the version ordered and supervised by an anti-semitic 
Episcopalian king of England. Certainly it should not be 
astonishing to find that this, and subsequent versions, are
sympathetic to the established Christian doctrines. Yet, the
earliest mss. such as the codex sinaiticus, vaticanus and
various papyrii translate quite differently unless they are
strongly colored by first assuming Christian doctrines and
then attempting to justify them. If one, rather, simply puts
the various passages in harmony, one learns that these early
followers of Yeshua were observant Jews some 40 years after
the execution of Yeshua - keeping the seventh day Sabbath
(while meeting on other days as well and collecting monies
on the first day - certainly not Shabbat - as Jews today
still do). They even continued to sacrifice in the Temple.
Christian doctrines of today originate in the paganism of
the Roman Empire - not with the authentic early group of
Jewish followers. One should read "The Conlfict Between the
Church and the Synagogue" Oxford doctoral thesis (Atheneum
Books), "The Church from the Circumcision" by Bagotti (from
the Biblical Archaeology Society), and vol 2 of "The Social
and Religious History of the Jews" by Baron (Jewish Publ.
Society). I would suggest that a good place to begin, if one
wants to be knowledgable in this area, would be to define
exactly what the Bible is: the KJV? Is it English? Based on
the Textus Receptus? Perhaps one might read the section on
"Text, NT" in the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible,
Abingdon, 1962.

One of the major problems with citing passages from modern versions is
that there it is slanted by so many interpretations from the Roman
Empire which were alien to the early N'tzarim sect - are are alien to
Judaism today. Relying upon "Christianized" versions promulgates the
muddying of the distinction between Christian and Jew - one cannot be
both at the same time. (The notion that Jews are merely a race has,
I hope, been recognized as falsehood.) 

Similarly, as the teachings espoused by the early N'tzarim sect are
distorted in modern versions, so also is the picture presented of
Y'shua. The two different versions present two different pictures:
one of an observant and thoroughly Jewish Y'shua and another of a
Christian Christ (Jesus). For clarity it  is really necessary to
distinguish whether one is speaking of Y'shua or Jesus - they are so
diametrically different (Y'shua teaching Torah in synagogues to Jews
while Jesus came and freed everyone from the Jewish law of sin, the
observance of which causes one to lose one's salvation - one Torah-
observant, the other antinomian.) 

We're talking about a figure (Jesus) who differs considerably between
the historical figure (Yeshua or Y'shua) and the (mythical) image
created of him later by pagans of the Roman Empire (the Christian
Jesus). It seems to me that we are inundated with "instant experts"
who have all the answers, yet in reality cannot even tell you WHAT
the Bible is - much less quote the first word of it! Do you recog-
nize the KJV by an anti-semitic medeival Christian king of England?
Is that the Bible? Is it the textus receptus by the medeival 
Catholic Church. These have little to do with the N'tzarim sect of
Jews of 2 millenia ago. And the interpretations have been dras-
tically distorted and perverted in the interim. But you wouldn't
know that unless you had learned to translate greek and hebrew
for yourself and translated it for yourself as I did. 

If you will read the texts recommended in the other article you
will have a little better basis for understanding what I'm
talking about. These writings were deliberately twisted over
the centuries to conform to the prevailing evolution of 
Christian dogma - see The Interpreter's Dictionary of the
Bible, Text NT by Abingdon (at least in the old edition).

Before you set off telling the world the way, you should educate
yourself about your way rather than taking the word of your
co-religionists. In fact, the way you point is toward a
mythical image conceived in the paganism of the Roman Empire
which is diametrically antithetical to the historical figure.
Thus, if Y'shua is the messiah then Jesus is the contra-
messiah or antichrist. Y'shua taught Torah in synagogues
while Jesus died to save the world from the Jewish law
of sin and death. The historical N'tzarim sect which 
followed Y'shua kept the Sabbath and even offerred sacri-
fices in the Temple until the Temple was destroyed in 
70 CE. The heretical evolution of Christianity didn't
get rolling well until 110 CE when the N'tzarim leader-
ship was booted out of Jerusalem with the other Jews
and the first gentile "bishop" was installed (and has 
remained gentile ever since). You have every right to
practice Christianity if you want, but I don't think you
should disguise it in a mantle of pseudo-scholarship.