cher@ihuxi.UUCP (09/06/84)
Some info on my background: I used to have vague religious feelings
which have been noticed to intensify during critical moments of my life,
events which I had no control over, exams, etc. Once upon a day I decided
to get myself a better understanding of my God (read bible). That was the
end of my vaguely religious feelings! The god's character was so irrational
(to my taste), unreasonable, vengeful, spiteful, and sadistic(sic) that I
became deeply disgusted. This creator is a total feeble-minded schizophrenic,
said I to myself => the book is a joke. There were, of course, other
considerations which helped me with the conclusion.
The above happened some time ago, does NOT represent a generally
acceptable anti-religious argument, and is not an invitation to
comment on my blindness/mistake/naivete. Too easy.
It's just an example of sentiments towards bible's main character.
I am interested in how people perceive the god's character in the bible
(old Testament). Behavior, possible (god forbid!) motives, etc.
Apologies to those who feel that bible is overrepresented here,
Mike Musingruss@ihuxi.UUCP (Russell Spence) (09/06/84)
> Some info on my background: I used to have vague religious feelings > which have been noticed to intensify during critical moments of my life, > events which I had no control over, exams, etc. Once upon a day I decided > to get myself a better understanding of my God (read bible). That was the > end of my vaguely religious feelings! The god's character was so irrational > (to my taste), unreasonable, vengeful, spiteful, and sadistic(sic) that I > became deeply disgusted. This creator is a total feeble-minded schizophrenic, > said I to myself => the book is a joke. There were, of course, other > considerations which helped me with the conclusion. ... > Mike Musing At one point, I was a member of a church and felt myself to be very devout. As I examined the Bible, I came to many of the same conclusions as you. I was also confused by the relation between the Old and New Testaments. People often seem to use quotes from both to justify their beliefs, when it seemed to me that the two books are obviously mutually exclusive. The Old Testament doesn't teach the same ideals as Christ and Christ himself came to transcend the laws of the Old Testament. The Old Testament god is vengeful and violent, but Christ taught kindness and mercy. How can these two be in the same religion, much less be the same god? The Old Testament reminds me alot of mythology, and as such, it is interesting but I wouldn't want to live my life by it. I like the New Testament, but I dislike the massive hypocrisy I find in the Christian church. Also, the New Test- ament seems either incomplete or very difficult to comprehend. This impression may be caused by the fact that I disagree with many people's interpretation of the New Testament. I, too, have religious feelings at times, but I have used ideas from Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, to understand and appreciate them. -- Russell Spence ihnp4!ihuxi!russ AT&T Technologies Naperville, IL
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (09/10/84)
> [Michael Ward] > Some info on my background: I used to have vague religious feelings > which have been noticed to intensify during critical moments of my life, > events which I had no control over, exams, etc. Once upon a day I decided > to get myself a better understanding of my God (read bible). That was the > end of my vaguely religious feelings! The god's character was so irrational > (to my taste), unreasonable, vengeful, spiteful, and sadistic(sic) that I > became deeply disgusted. This creator is a total feeble-minded schizophrenic, > said I to myself => the book is a joke. There were, of course, other > considerations which helped me with the conclusion. > > The above happened some time ago, does NOT represent a generally > acceptable anti-religious argument, and is not an invitation to > comment on my blindness/mistake/naivete. Too easy. > > I am interested in how people perceive the god's character in the bible Two comments, made for purpose of eliciting further info from Michael. (i) Can you give some specifics about what you believe to be irrationalities in God's character? Alternatively, can you put out a posting stating that you don't intend to do this? In that latter case, we will try to infer what you mean. (ii) (violating non-invitation in second paragraph). You must believe, evidently, that your convictions are consistent enough to be held. Why then say that your argument is not generally acceptable? This makes me curious. -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois The Lord bless thee, and keep thee, The Lord make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee, The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. Numbers 6:24-26
cher@ihuxi.UUCP (Mike Musing) (09/12/84)
some examples of god's behaviour i did not like:
Don't remember in full detail. But
Story with apples, rhethorical question to Kain(sp?),
snake's fate, call on protopeople to multiply (good thing they ate that apple),
getting angry at that poor fellow Onan, generally playing around with those
feeble-minded humans of own invention,
above all, forcing an old gentleman to take a swing at his son with a knife
atop mountain, you name it. I don't remember.
I can, of course, assume religionists' point of view and explain away
these things, having 5000 years' efforts of theologists behind me.
But my interest was in people's immediate sentiments.
For Paul DuBois: The above is not a generally accepted argument for
same reason chili is not everybody's favorite food.
I think I making a mistake here
Mike Musingaeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (09/25/84)
Response to one of the things Mike Musing disliked about God:
> forcing an old gentleman to take a swing at his son with a knife atop mountain
It wasn't exactly forcing. Abraham could have ignored God's direction to
sacrifice Isaac. But God wanted to test Abraham so they'd both know where
his priorities were -- whether his deepest attachment and devotion were
directed to God or elsewhere. Note that once both God and Abraham saw the
answer, God stopped Abraham from actually killing Isaac.
--
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
"Jesus looked Death in the eye, and Death blinked first."rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (10/01/84)
If you look at the story Abraham states clearly to the
attendant that (paraphrased) " Me and the boy will be back
directly."
Now Father Abraham was lying thru his teeth cause he knew Isaac
was gonna get cut or he was making a faith statement that even if Isaac
died on the Altar that God would raise him up.
Another interesting parallel for Christians..Note that it is Abraham's
willingness to sacrifice his son that opens up the way for his covenant
partner YHWH to commit to sacrifice His Son for Abraham (further on
down the line.)
Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (10/04/84)
> [Bob Brown] > If you look at the story Abraham states clearly to the > attendant that (paraphrased) " Me and the boy will be back > directly." > > Now Father Abraham was lying thru his teeth cause he knew Isaac > was gonna get cut or he was making a faith statement that even if Isaac > died on the Altar that God would raise him up. And it says in Hebrews that it was the latter. > Another interesting parallel for Christians..Note that it is Abraham's > willingness to sacrifice his son that opens up the way for his covenant > partner YHWH to commit to sacrifice His Son for Abraham (further on > down the line.) Other parallels: Three days to get to Moriah/three days in tomb Moriah very close to Calvary geographically God provided the sacrifice both times Only sons (quibble, if you want) Sons raised from dead (see Hebrews) -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Psalm 119:35