steve@zinfandel.UUCP (09/26/84)
I have a simple, perhaps naive, but utterly fundamental question:
What is it that leads a person from any other state of mind
to the state of believing that the Bible is totally true
and inspired by the God described therein?
Answers from those in either state of mind will be appreciated, thank you.
Steve Nelson
zehntel!zinfandel!stevedubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (10/01/84)
> [Steve Nelson] > I have a simple, perhaps naive, but utterly fundamental question: > > What is it that leads a person from any other state of mind > to the state of believing that the Bible is totally true > and inspired by the God described therein? > > Answers from those in either state of mind will be appreciated, thank you. Not "what", "who". God. -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Psalm 119:35
mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (10/02/84)
> > [Steve Nelson] > > I have a simple, perhaps naive, but utterly fundamental question: > > > > What is it that leads a person from any other state of mind > > to the state of believing that the Bible is totally true > > and inspired by the God described therein? > > > > Answers from those in either state of mind will be appreciated, thank you. > > [Paul DuBois] > Not "what", "who". God. Positive feedback. The same kinds of positive feedback that cause people to become confirmed conservatives, liberals, Democrats, Moslems, Hindus, agnostics, sociobiologists, etc. Christianity can provide superficially consistent answers to a variety of commonly asked questions. Consistency of explanation is very convincing to people, and explanations that rule out accepting other kinds of explanation are the positive feedback that lock people into Christianity and other cults. A simplified example (taken from the Krishnas, but applicable to Christianity as well) is the "you can't trust anything a demon says; they are trying to lead you astray; anyone not a Krishna is a demon; so only listen to Krishnas' arguments and ignore everyone else's" paradigm. The Christian analogy is temptation by Satan. The friend trying to dissuade you is actually being mislead by Satan, so he is wrong. Another reason the positive feedback works, is that it is mechanically simple even for the feebleminded to use these sorts of rationales, rather than have to understand a logical argument. The ability to recite a formula which requires significant intellectual horsepower to refute must give the reciter a feeling of power, since he can easily use the formula to dismiss the refutation (in his own mind at least) as well. One example of that sort of formula is "There's no proof that Gawd doesn't exist" statement. It's meaningless, since there's no proof that cosmic pink elephants don't exist as well. Yet I just read that one today, right here. But explanations of logical meaninglessness of statements get shrugged off with another formula: "Gawd is above our puny /logic/intellects/understanding/ etc./" In summary, the reason people can be converted is by the positive feedback from being able to formulaically answer questions. Like this: > [Paul DuBois] > Not "what", "who". God. -- Mike Huybensz ...mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh
rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/03/84)
____________ | | | | | V | >> [Steve Nelson] | >> I have a simple, perhaps naive, but utterly fundamental question: | >> What is it that leads a person from any other state of mind | >> to the state of believing that the Bible is totally true | >> and inspired by the God described therein? | >> Answers from those in either state of mind will be appreciated, | >> thank you. | | > Not "what", "who". God. [Paul DuBois] | V | | |____________| UNTIL(PRECONCEPTION_COUNT = 0) DO : /* PRECONCEPTION_COUNT = PRECONCEPTION_COUNT - 1 */ /* statement above commented out because it's against the will of God */ : END -- "So, it was all a dream!" --Mr. Pither "No, dear, this is the dream; you're still in the cell." --his mother Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
steve@zinfandel.UUCP (Steve Nelson) (10/10/84)
> > [Steve Nelson] (me) > > I have a simple, perhaps naive, but utterly fundamental question: > > > > What is it that leads a person from any other state of mind > > to the state of believing that the Bible is totally true > > and inspired by the God described therein? > > > > Answers from those in either state of mind will be appreciated, thank you. > > [Paul DuBois] > Not "what", "who". God. By "God", can I take it that you mean the God described in the Bible? Can I also take it that you are describing a general process: given several totally independent holy books, each describing a distinct deity, that which leads a person to believe in any and only one of these books and its divine origins is the deity described in that book? Regardless of the particular holy book and its deity, one can observe similar behavior of the deity->book->deity cycle believer: I believe in this book, this book describes a deity which wrote the book, therefore I must believe in this book, therefore I believe in the deity who wrote it, therefore other books with similar claims are wrong. So my questions are: 1. Given similar behavior among believers in different books/deities, is or isn't this behavior a manifestation of the same natural belief-formation process occuring within each believer? 2. If any one of the belief-formation processes can be attributed to divine intervention, then what process explains belief-formation in any other book/deity, and why is the outward behavior so similar? 3. How can somebody from the outside of the process (not yet predisposed toward any one book/deity) make the choice of any one book/deity, without that choice being arbitrary? In other words, from state 0 I can enter (and get caught up in) any of the cycles of belief in any book/deity... so what should lead me to any one of them? Thanks for answers, zehntel!zinfandel!steve nelson