dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (10/04/84)
> >>Even if you judge people to be sinners, which the bible says you > >>shouldn't ... > > >Where does the Bible say that? > > Try Matthew 7:1-5 from the sermon on the mount and Romans 14:12-20 where Paul > is talking about how christians should behave toward non-christians. The > passage from Romans will probably come back to haunt me. I should know better > than to give you scriptures since you'll just invoke Rule 1. > > I *try* not to judge other people because they don't look like, act like, or > agree with me. I'm not black but I don't hate blacks. I'm not gay but I > don't hate gays. I'm not christian but I don't hate christians. I don't eat > liver but I don't hate people that do. They all fall in about the same > category to me. Whether the difference is one nobody can change or it's > something a person has a choice in, as long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone > else what right do I have to interfere. Being different shouldn't mean better > or worse, just different. I don't hate any of the above groups either, but what does judging have to do with hate? As far as the passage from Matthew, the parallel in Luke also adds that I will be judged with whatever standard I judge by, i.e., I should apply my own standard to myself first before I aim it at someone else. (board in my eye and all that - also Paul indicates that I must give my judgment in love) > I don't need something to look forward to after I die > to be happy right now. My life is in my control and if I choose to screw it > up I don't need a deity or a devil to put the blame on. I didn't need something to look forward to, either. I became a Christian anyway. If I screw up my life, I don't need a deity or a devil to blame, either. I'm responsible for it. But what happens if you don't choose to screw it up, and do so anyway? > >>I think Dave's hatred is much too deeply ingrained to allow him to > >>explain or question it. > > >This is the second time I've seen this hatred thing. Jerry Nowlin > >said something similar. I definitely hate lies and sometimes react > >viscerally against them (having seen the disastrous results that > >acceptance of lies has had in my own life and the lives of some of > >my friends). As far as I know this is a virtue. Let me know if > >you can correct me on this. > > Hate is a very strong word. I don't know anyone who thinks of it as > a virtue. I don't know what's poisoned you with hate. You have my > sympathy. I can only wish you some peace of mind and hope you find > someone who can love you in spite of your hatred. If I were religious > I'd definitely pray for you. Hate is not a blanket vice, nor is love a blanket virtue. This confusion runs rampant on this net. Suppose you hate injustice. Is that being poisoned? Suppose I love violence. Is that virtue? Hatred of lies is hating a bad thing, and is itself good. Right? -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Psalm 119:35
rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/12/84)
>>I *try* not to judge other people because they don't look like, act like, or >>agree with me. I'm not black but I don't hate blacks. I'm not gay but I >>don't hate gays. I'm not christian but I don't hate christians. I don't eat >>liver but I don't hate people that do. They all fall in about the same >>category to me. Whether the difference is one nobody can change or it's >>something a person has a choice in, as long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone >>else what right do I have to interfere. Being different shouldn't mean better >>or worse, just different. [?????] > I don't hate any of the above groups either, but what does judging > have to do with hate? [PAUL DUBOIS] ^ | *This* came from one of the most outspoken Christians in this newsgroup. I think that says something. Especially when none of the other Christians saw fit to respond to it. (It was followed by an "explanation" that the passage "Judge not lest ye be judged" implied only that the "judger" will be judged by the same standards that he/she used to judge. Thus it's "OK" if you judge by "God's standards"---whatever the judger has unilaterally decided that *they* "really" are! If you ever need evidence of advocates of a religion interpreting their holy texts the way *they* feel like to match their presuppositions, you've got it now.) -- WHAT IS YOUR NAME? Rich Rosen WHAT IS YOUR *OLD* NET ADDRESS? {ihnp4,harpo,allegra}!pyuxn!rlr WHAT IS YOUR *NEW* NET ADDRESS? {ihnp4,harpo,allegra}!pyuxd!rlr ALL RIGHT, OFF YOU GO! (AS OF 10/14/84) -----