dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (09/26/84)
> > Subject: Re: Wishful thinking (religion) > > There seem to be two issues here. First, what did the > person experience? Second, is that person's > interpretation of what happened > > If you're asking what I felt like when I was converted: I > didn't feel anything. No emotional experience, no bells and > whistles, or choirs, or warm feelings. Nothing. > > Come now! I'm surprised that you should interpret this to mean > "physical experience." I mean, how were YOU changed as a person, > not how your outward behavior changed. In what way did YOU become > a different person inside? That's what the word "conversion" means > you know... like Uncle Ben's rice. This is sort of a vacuous objection since I gave a whole list of ways in which I became different, later on in the same article. > The point is... "Is your conversion REALLY attributable to God." I would judge from some of your statements that you probably don't believe that there's any way to tell. If that's so, why waste time asking this question? > REALLY what happened (truth is so hard to pin down). > > Ah, yes! It's all so complicated and how are we to know... > I've heard that one before. Question for you: is there an > objective reality? If not, then your question doesn't make > sense. > > You've heard that one before... as if it were a cynical > question. Consider what I am asking. How do you know that your Sorry. I assumed it was, because I've heard it expressed that way from lots of people before. Several of whom were using it as an excuse. > conversion was indeed inspired by the hand of God? Why not convert to > Ubizmitizm? Surely you aren't signing your life away to just ANY random Because Ubizmitizm didn't reach down to me and turn me into someone different. > deity. Converting to Christianity implies that you converted > to that particular belief because...... > > (fill in the blank) It does? Why? Couldn't I have done it on an irrational and mindless basis? > My usual reaction to this sort of thing is to state > that if one wishes to ascribe a naturalistic explanation to my > experience, go right ahead. I don't, however. Nor do I make > much attempt to justify my position. Pretty pigheaded, huh? > > No... actually sounds rather easy-going to me. Me not dogmatic and open-minded? Don't make that mistake! :-) > Why am I that way? Something like this: I was an atheist. > God turned me into a Christian. Now I'm not an atheist. > Not much of an explanation, I guess. But I didn't do it, > so I'm hard pressed to explain it. It's as much of a mystery > to me as it is to anyone. All I know is WHO did it. (Which, > after all, is quite sufficient) > > And how did you know it was God? That's why I ask, "what did you > experience?" What is it that made you certain that it was God and > not "The Great Ubizmo?" How do I know? Because I do. If it happened to you, you'd know, too. Romans 8:16, I John 2:3,5. > Well, of course. Some people see the all things in spiritual > terms, others in entirely naturalistic terms. If one believes > that all things must have a naturalistic explanation, then > unusual events which cannot explained have suspension of > judgment applied to them. "It's not supernatural, we just > don't have an explanation for it yet." > > Which harkens back to my original pair of statements. Sometimes, > the reaction depends upon the person and not the experience. > Had the naturalistic kind of guy been more of a Kingdom kind of guy > he might claim to be in touch with God as opposed to suspending his > belief in God. And maybe he'd be right! -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Psalm 119:35
dsaker@iuvax.UUCP (10/01/84)
[] Come on, Paul. The guy is asking you what experiences & feelings & thoughts you had in your conversion. He is asking you what it was about your experiences that convinced you that the christian god was behind them. Come on, Paul, you know what he is asking. Why not come out and answer him? Please give us the "low-down" on your conversion. Daryel Akerlind ...ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!dsaker "Your ignorance makes me ill and angry. This savagery must cease."
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (10/15/84)
> Re Mr. DuBois' reply to a reasonable question: > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > And how did you know it was God? That's why I ask, "what did you > > experience?" What is it that made you certain that it was God and > > not "The Great Ubizmo?" > > How do I know? Because I do. If it happened to you, you'd know, > too. Romans 8:16, I John 2:3,5. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Well, I think that ("Because I do.") just about sums things > up. We can now safely dispense, forever, with net.religion. > (Appeals to the ineffable... come, now!!) > > W. Christensen Come, now, indeed. What kind of reply would you like? Stated another way, what evidence do you require that, when, presented, would convince you of the truth of my conversion? -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Psalm 119:35