daver@hp-pcd.UUCP (09/18/84)
Nf-From: hpcvrd!daver Sep 18 17:48:00 1984
Jesus said (Luke 16:17)
"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away
than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail." (NAS translation)
The Law he was referring to is the Old Testament, which is very explicit
concerning sexual behavior among unmarried people. Try looking in Deuteronomy.
Dave Rabinowitz
hplabs!hp-pcd!daverrjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (09/21/84)
All this theorizing on Mr Tillich's part was quite
interesting but just shows to go ya' what happens
when you cut yourself loose from what's pretty plain
in the Scriptures - adultery and fornication are not
acceptable continuing, contemplated, premeditated,
(did I qualify it enough ?) behavior patterns for
someone who claims to be a Christian and recognizes
the authority of the Bible. Now if you don't recognize
the Word as the authority for faith and practice then
you can weave sophistry and rationalization to your
heart's content and justify almost any behavior you want to.
Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (09/22/84)
One point in an article by Stephen J. Hartley (uvm-cs!hartley) caught my eye: > ... I grew up in the sixties when attitudes were more > along the lines of "Love God and do as you please" and situation ethics. I believe the original use of the phrase "Love God and do as you please" was by a well-known saint (Augustine, I think); and I think he was making the point that if one genuinely loves God, one's actions will be in line with God's will, so one would not have to get all legalistic about what one did. (This would seem to be in accord with Galatians, wherein Paul rather strongly urges that we not become slaves again to the Law -- wise advice, for that is a slavery I'm just now, finally, escaping from.) The same idea was expressed by a Christian psychologist named Logan Fox, who sometimes is called upon as a speaker. Once he said in a sermon, "When you leave here, you may go out and do anything you want to do." When some people said to him afterwards that they considered this statement dangerous, he replied, "What kind of people are you?" -- -- Jeff Sargent {decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "Jesus looked Death in the eye, and Death blinked first."
lisa@phs.UUCP (Jeff Gillette) (09/24/84)
<Bob Brown> > All this theorizing on Mr Tillich's part was quite > interesting but just shows to go ya' what happens > when you cut yourself loose from what's pretty plain > in the Scriptures Bob, I think you have missed one important point. What Professor Tillich (or at least those theologians I am more familiar with) wants to argue is that the teachings of the Scriptures make sense only when seen in their own culture and context. Jesus' teachings have to be seen in the light of a Jewish nation that viewed its self-identity in terms of the law (Torah) of Moses. Similarly, Paul's instructions to the Corinthians are addressed to a rough port city where prostitution and eating meat were commonly integrated into the worship of idols. Whenever we try to make the Bible relevant to 20th Century America we are involved in *interpretation* - taking principles and analogies we think are important, and drawing ethical conclusions from them. This is exactly what Professor Tillich and others have done. Those of us (note the pronoun) who want to say that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong in light of the Scriptures are going to have to do better than "what's pretty plain in the Scriptures." We're going to have to show why Jesus' command to cut off the offending hand and poke out the lustful eye is not meant to be applied *literally* today, but his command against fornication (porneia - all types of immorality) should be interpreted strictly. We're going to have to show why Paul's injunction to the Corinthians not to be married (if they can handle celibacy) is no longer relevant, and yet his condemnation of a man who slept with his [deceased] father's wife [e.g. step mother], and condemnation of [temple] prostitution, translates into a contemporary ban on pre-, post-, and extra-marital sex. Anyone up to the challenge? Jeff Gillette ...!duke!phs!lisa
wolpert@hpisla.UUCP (wolpert) (10/17/84)
.
It is clear that the Bible condemns adultery--that is, sex
between two people not married to each other (but at least
one is married to someone else). There is good reason for
this attitude: it "adulterates", and weakens, the family tie
that is supposed to be cemented by marriage.
.
There are those who would say that since the "survival of
the species" is assured, we don't need the family anymore
as a survival unit. I do not think that "survival" is our
object on this planet. We are here "to tend the Garden, and
to keep it". The closeness of a family is important as a
support group in this endeavor.
.
(Maybe we won't survive, but "family" won't make a difference
any more: having more children and raising them won't help)
.
The Old Testament prescribed various penalties for sex-
outside-marriage: adultery was punished by death. Fornicators
were fined.
.
David Wolpert
Loveland, CO
hplabs!hpfcla!hplvla!wolpert (unix)