rob@hhb.UUCP (Robert R Stegmann) (10/30/84)
[...] In response to Ken Nichols' contention that one must "...[admit] you are a sinner by birth and by choice, and that you can do nothing to get rid of your sin.", I wrote, "American law presumes innocence until guilt is proven, not the contrary. Perhaps Chilean `law' is a superior system?". To which Paul DuBois replied: > God knows you inside and out, and so does not have to presume > innocence; He knows better. The American legal system does not > know you inside and out. The larger issue here is that, while God forbears to judge me until after I die, there are those in America who presume to usurp the prerogative of our temporal authorities and judge me while I live. The reason that Mr. Nichols' remarks merit any rebuttal at all, is that his opinions are of a simplicity and visceral directness that would appeal to those who have little regard for human life, and a desire to belong to some organization sharing their views. The dangers of tacit approval, in the form of silent acceptance by the majority, of the rantings of a vociferous minority who maintain that they have a monopoly on moral truths has been demonstrated at least twice in recent history. As strongly as Mr. Nichols feels it is his responsibility to save Man from Hell's fires, I feel compelled to divert Man from fiery destruction here on Earth. Unlike Mr. Nichols, I feel that the quality of one's existence on Earth is of importance. Shall God damn men for misbehaving here if an Earthly life is of such negligible significance? I feel, too, that our morality is of worth. Of what importance are sin, guilt, repentance, and God's forgiveness via Jesus' death if we are incapable of making moral calls? If morality is absolute, then there can be no mistaking immorality, even when it is perpetrated by a diety. The whole New Testament attests to a change in God's relationship with Man. The vengeful God of the Old Testament is no more, and it is the Compassionate God of the New Testament who should be celebrated by modern Christians. An idea from Dante's Inferno comes to mind. I recall reading a more modern version coauthored by Larry Niven and someone else. The contention therein was that all Men in Hell could leave it and return to God's presence if only they would surrender their belief that they were evil and deserved to be wherever they happened to be in Hell. The characters held their Evil to them as their most prized possessions, as though they might lose their identities if they relinquished it. They refused to recognize Evil as a shackle, and it bound them though in no way locked. I do not believe God condemns Men to Hell. I have seen Men condemn themselves, via thinking akin to Mr. Nichols'. rob {allegra,ihnp4,decvax}!philabs!hhb!rob I in no way represent my employer in this matter.
ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) (11/08/84)
> The whole New Testament attests to a change in God's > relationship with Man. The vengeful God of the Old Testament > is no more, and it is the Compassionate God of the New Testament > who should be celebrated by modern Christians. > > rob There is a change in God's relationship to man, I agree. Through the New Covenant in Christ's blood we can have a deeper, more personal relationship than the believers in the Old Testament had. However, God did not change His personality in the middle of the Bible. God's attributes did not change just because He sent His Son. The truths about God's character in the Old Testament are just as true now as they were then. Do you mean to say that God was not compassionate in the Old Testament? I think David (the Psalmist) would disagree with you. Is God not vengefull in the New Testament? Tell that to Elymus (sp?) the Magician in Acts, who God, through Paul, struck with blindness for trying to buy the Holy Spirit's power. Read the book of Revelation, and tell me that God is not wrathfull anymore. I just don't agree. God's love is more evident in the New Testament because of Jesus' life. At this time in history, God was expressing the greatest act of love in history. This does not mean that He changed His character. He still cannot fellowship with sin in an intimate way. God, as the man Jesus, fellowshiped with sinners, true. But why did He so this? To show the world that they were deserving of God's love, and His sacrificial gift. Not to commune with them in their sin. We cannot throw out half of God's character just because Jesus came to the earth. Well, that's all for now. -- "...holding forth the Ken Nichols word of life..." Phil. 2:16 ...!ucbvax!dual!qantel!ken --------------------