[net.religion] Two pea brains in a pod!

arndt@lymph.DEC (11/06/84)

You guys have been standing out in the sun too long.  Of all the vacuous
drivel I've seen on the net this about tops it.  You sound like a couple
of Christians going on about God's Plan - don't you notice it?  I mean
you don't even have a book that tells you what you say is so - it just comes
whole cloth out of your heads.  Next you'll be telling us about Mother Nature.

One can make a case that all (most) men have a feeling of awe in the face of
the material world - but to say as you do that they are all worshiping the
same Being (what does that mean?) "in ways uniquely theirs" is nitwit.  Some
go for more than one "Being" others for none at all.  Or are you attempting
a Roman Catholic doctrine like "baptised by desire"?  Try Anthropology 101 or
Comparative Religion 101.   (see below)
-------------------------------
(Chuqui says:)                                                  
>... One of the great joys of humanity is its diversity, and part
>of that diversity is that widely differing groups of people can all worship
>the same Being in ways uniquely theirs. 

(Byron Howes says:)                              
I always figured that was part of the Plan.  A Deity that truly loved all
people in their diversity (and who truly wanted love in return) would understand
that different people have different expectations of their faiths, and would
provide accordingly.  No way is better or worse than any other, and all measure
the differences among us.  Ultimately, they bring us all to the same place.

    (me)    >"The Plan boss, the Plan!"  Now you're seeing plans, eh Byron.
How the hell do you know that what you have said above is true????  You got a
book, hear voices, see things??  Sounds like a lot of no brainer to me.  At 
least the Christians have a book.  Let's call nonsense by it's name, eh.

(Byron again:)
What both amuses and frightens me is how we get hung up on incredible techni-
calities (from a universal perspective) to the point that even the best of us
gets sucked into the fray.  It strikes me we lose track of the real reason
we're here -- to understand ourselves, each other, and our relationship to
the Universe.

-     						Byron C. Howes
           >It strikes me you still have a medicine bottle stuck up your nose.
How does one get to that "universal perspective", aside  from sniffing, to 
see past all those "incredible technicalities" you feel so uncomfortable with?
Wanna let us in on the method you used to determine the "real reason" we're
here?  Mankind has only been waiting for your answer for several thousand
years.  

What a load of silly crap you guys are spooning out.  And you have the BALLS
to knock the Christians!!!  You make them look pretty reasonable.  No wonder
they want to have a net free of your barf.

Keep chargin'


Ken Arndt

tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (11/07/84)

Mr. Arndt, I was wondering what all the fuss was about when you were
condemned for your net.motss postings.  I have only re-joined the net
recently, you see.  Now I understand.  You are an insulting and disgusting
man with nothing to contribute to rational debate.  Please curl up into a
small ball and precipitate yourself into the nearest sewer.

Incidentally, as a friend of Byron's, I can assure you that he does NOT
"stick his nose in medicine bottles", as you have suggested.  Furthermore,
claiming falsely that someone has committed a crime is a serious offense and
a serious abuse of your privilege to use the network.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center
ARPA:	Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K
uucp:	Try sending through a gateway such as DECWRL, UCB-VAX, SEISMO,
	or HARVARD -- mailer conventions differ on syntax

chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Zonker T. Chuqui) (11/08/84)

In article <4131@decwrl.UUCP> arndt@lymph.DEC writes:
>You guys have been standing out in the sun too long.  Of all the vacuous
>drivel I've seen on the net this about tops it.  You sound like a couple
>of Christians going on about God's Plan - don't you notice it?  I mean
>you don't even have a book that tells you what you say is so - it just comes
>whole cloth out of your heads.  
Hmm... What a nice change of pace-- a tolerant Christian. After all of the
viperous intolerance, this is truly a breath of fresh air. Excuse me while
I go puke.

If you listened at all to what I said, there really isn't a difference
between what I said and what Christians say-- that is the whole POINT! All
faiths worship the same God, they just use different names and ways
different from the Christian pantheon. Some of us don't NEED books to tell
us how to react to God, some of us can do so on our own and feel
comfortable with it.

>Next you'll be telling us about Mother Nature.
What else do you honestly think a Zen Druid (such as myself) would consider
worshipping?

>Some go for more than one "Being" others for none at all.
Well, if you want to get technical, I consider myself polytheistic rather
than monotheistic, even though when you look at it each 'deity' they are
actually different facets of what is really a single Being. Besides Nature,
a real mother if I've ever seen one, I could also make a case for my
worshiping someone such as Aphrodite because of my beliefs in loving and
tolerating my fellow human beings regardless of their faults (or pan, or
cupid, for that matter-- they are all personifications of the same
essence). I don't see anything wrong with that.

>    (me)    >"The Plan boss, the Plan!"  Now you're seeing plans, eh Byron.
>How the hell do you know that what you have said above is true????  You got a
>book, hear voices, see things??  Sounds like a lot of no brainer to me.  At 
>least the Christians have a book.  Let's call nonsense by it's name, eh.
I know what I've said is True for the same reasons that Christians believe
their book and what they say is true-- I believe it. I've never asked you
to believe it, I don't think you'd understand it, much less believe it.
Without the faith of the Christians, the Bible is no more the word of God
than my microwave cookbook. With that faith, it is EVERYTHING, at least to
the Christians. The same is true of my faiths.

>What a load of silly crap you guys are spooning out.  And you have the BALLS
>to knock the Christians!!!  You make them look pretty reasonable.  No wonder
>they want to have a net free of your barf.
Ah, if you can't baffle them with brilliance, bury them with, well,
nevermind. I never knocked the Christians or their faith. I knocked their
lack of willingness to allow me to practice my faith in the same way I
allow them to practice theirs-- with my tolerance that NEITHER path is
incorrect, just different. 

Ken, I firmly believe you were born into the wrong century. You belong in
1600 Salem where you could torture people like me by calling them
'witches', during the inquisitions where you could stick red hot pokers
into my eyes, during the great holy wars where you could have gone and
killed heathens for their lack of faith, raped their women, and slaughtered
their children. the world is too civilised for people like you-- your lack
of caring for your fellow man disgusts me. I try to be tolerant of other
people's viewpoints, but I have my limits. I firmly believe that if your
Jesus was half the man my studies of him show him to be (son of God or not)
he would spit on you for your flagrant disregard of his teachings; all the
time professing to be a follower of his. It is the people like you that
give the REAL Christians such a bad name.

chuq (I love my fellow man, but does Ken Qualify?)
-- 
From the Department of Bistromatics:                   Chuq Von Rospach
{cbosgd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui  nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA

  I'd know those eyes from a million years away....

ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) (11/08/84)

Chug writes,

> In article <4131@decwrl.UUCP> arndt@lymph.DEC writes:
> 
>>What a load of silly crap you guys are spooning out.  And you have the BALLS
>>to knock the Christians!!!  You make them look pretty reasonable.  No wonder
>>they want to have a net free of your barf.
> Ah, if you can't baffle them with brilliance, bury them with, well,
> nevermind. I never knocked the Christians or their faith. I knocked their
> lack of willingness to allow me to practice my faith in the same way I
> allow them to practice theirs-- with my tolerance that NEITHER path is
> incorrect, just different. 
> 
> Ken, I firmly believe you were born into the wrong century. You belong in
> 1600 Salem where you could torture people like me by calling them
> 'witches', during the inquisitions where you could stick red hot pokers
> into my eyes, during the great holy wars where you could have gone and
> killed heathens for their lack of faith, raped their women, and slaughtered
> their children. the world is too civilised for people like you-- your lack
> of caring for your fellow man disgusts me. I try to be tolerant of other
> people's viewpoints, but I have my limits. I firmly believe that if your
> Jesus was half the man my studies of him show him to be (son of God or not)
> he would spit on you for your flagrant disregard of his teachings; all the
> time professing to be a follower of his. It is the people like you that
> give the REAL Christians such a bad name.
> 
> chuq (I love my fellow man, but does Ken Qualify?)
> -- 

I think Chug thinks that I, Ken Nichols, wrote the above flame about Chug
when in fact it was Ken Arndt.  Although I don't believe in your religuous
system, I wouldn't make such a personal attack on you.  Ken Arndt is an
athiest or agnostic or one of those.  He is not a Christian.  Please don't
confuse us.
--
Ken Nichols
-----------

bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) (11/09/84)

I had hoped this one would die of disinterest, but now that Chuq has been
compelled to throw his two bits worth in, I'll throw mine in.

I can't say I'm really too upset that Ken Arndt thinks my beliefs ridic-
ulous.  After all, if Kenny doesn't like it that means I must be doing
something right, eh?

Seriously, my beliefs are my own and it bothers me not one whit if nobody
else shares them.  It was not my intention to declare myself the harbinger
of Truth, The Great Ubizmo will not strike you with a lightning bolt if
you don't see their innate worth, you are not doomed to spend the rest of
eternity as an IBM systems programmer if you don't follow them, and I am
not a crook.

						G'night Ken
				              (G'night Byron)
-- 

						Byron C. Howes
				      ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch