[net.religion] Reply to Brunson's questions

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/09/84)

David writes:

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The irrepressible Yiri Ben-David:
>When Christians attempt to convert Jews in the future, it is they who
>need to turn to the Judaism from which they became apostate around 110
>CE. It is they who are unsaved and in need of salvation. Turn back to 
>the Judaism of your origins and find your salvation before you suffer 
>all of the dooms you have been proclaiming to everyone else. Don't be
>stiffnecked in your arrogance and hypocrisies simply because the shoe is
>now on the other foot. 

This presents a number of interesting theological questions for the divinity
students:

Does God hear the prayers of Christians?

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Yiri responds:
I say nothing here... but I will provide a literal translation of a
passage from the Jewish Bible, Proverbs 28:9 (your version may be verse 
8 or 10) : "He who turns aside his ear from hearkening to Torah, even 
his prayer is an abomination".
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Have Jews replaced Christians as the *true* Jews?

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Yiri responds:
Christians (as opposed to the N'tzarim) have NEVER been Jews, so no
replacement is necessary. 
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Has Israel replaced America as the *true* Israel?

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Yiri responds:
America has been kinder than most countries to the Jews. Still, no one
should deceive themselves that America is equatable to Israel. It is
not.
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Are Christians Mashiakh-Killers?

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Yiri responds:
While I suspect these questions were somewhat rhetorical and tongue-
in-cheek, there are nevertheless some things it might be good to give
serious reflection to.

The historical account represents that there was a Jewish element which
instigated a "kangaroo court" and a trial, after which the actual 
execution was carried out by gentiles. Neither is innocent. Both must 
assume responsibility for the death. Regardless of how we have been
treated down through the ages, it is not the Jewish way to seek
retribution, but rather to forgive and pursue peace. (The spectre of
continued ignorance and persecution is an entirely different matter.)
I have certainly presented a tutorial for Jews (and others) to be able 
to deal from a position of strength with those who try to convert them 
and to expose christians to shortcomings about which most of them have 
never been told. While that may seem to be an attack, it is in reality 
a defense. If it seems like an attack to christians, they should 
reflect how they have thusly been attacking Jews for centuries - to say 
nothing of the other far more tragic persecutions we have endured. Put 
simply, the shoe is indeed on the other foot.  

I implore everyone not to become as abusive to christians as they
have sometimes been to others. I suggest that they are often
well-meaning people who are victims of deceit and who are usually
disseminating that deception on others unwittingly with great zeal.
In my opinion, the Roman Empire pulled off the most insidious counter-
feiting job in history and have thereby deceived more people and done 
more damage in its name than any other group I can think of. Good 
intentions don't bring back the dead and undo the damages. The most 
unfortunate part of it is that they refuse to change course - they 
absolutely refuse to examine these possibilities objectively because 
it threatens what they are already frozen into believing regardless of 
facts, historical considerations, etc. and they can't face the (admit-
tedly) difficult prospect of discovering that for all their life they've 
been putting all their eggs in a counterfeit basket which would disappear 
with all the eggs they've collected so far. They cannot face having to 
admit such a momentous error.
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