yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/07/84)
There is an old phenomena surfacing: the supposed 'love', etc. of
christians is only skin-deep and the real christians are coming out.
These christians are paranoid about having an audience which would dare
to monitor them for rasicist comments and bigotry... even though there
is a long history of rascism and bigotry in christianity. They label
this concern as 'paranoia' that other groups would even THINK that they
could be rascist or bigoted, or have rascists and/or bigots among them.
They have even "warned" me that this would be "looked upon with
disfavor" - a rather nebulous warning which could mean nothing or almost
anything. They are certainly offended, miffed and shocked that anyone
would dare to seriously challenge their 'rightness'. If they are hurt by
this, then they should consider why they would be hurt by factual
information. Weren't they taught "you shall know the truth, and the
truth shall make you free"? Is this authentic hurt in the sense of
injury or is it rather hurt to their prideful arrogance? I think the
answer is obvious.
This reconfirms the earlier points made re the inherent fraudulent and
counterfeit nature of christianity. The christian notion of 'love' is
likewise just as fraudulent and counterfeit. This 'love' is poured out
on you like a sticky-sweet honey - as long as you agree with them and
don't dare challenge their 'rightness'. I submit that love means a great
deal more than that. For example, it means bringing truth to people and
challenging their errors at the expense of yourself... when you know
going in that you are going to be hated, despised and attacked for what
you are compelled to say. Love is putting the other person's well-being
before your own, even when you have to make your tongue into a two-edged
sword just to show your point. It is not the desired way to present
information, but it has frequently been the only way left for the point
to be made to some who would deny factual information rather than concede
that they are wrong.
We see that christianity does not want their own forum. What they want
is to impose their groundless views upon others. They are defensive to
the point of paranoia about being monitored. There must be a reason. I
certainly don't mind that they can read net.religion.jewish. We don't
have a thing to hide. Christians are not satisfied with the mere freedom
to practice christianity, it is one of their integral tenets that they
MUST seek to IMPOSE it on others. If it were a mere matter of OFFERING
christianity, they could post invitations to read net.religion.christian
and offer christian positions on issues (without presuming their
'rightness') and do the preaching on their own net to those who choose
to subscribe. To insist on dominating net.religion for the purposes of
evangelizing is IMPOSING christianity on netters who are interested in
religion in general and may have long ago tired of hearing christian
evangelistic propaganda (as I have). It is nonsense to insist on continued
pounding of the same wearisome assertions down the throats of those who
are not interested and desire more general, more objective, and more
factual discussions on a net supposedly dedicated to religion in general.
Now that serious and unanswerable faults have been exposed in
christianity and they are being asked not to presume their absolute
'rightness' on a general net any longer, the tone has changed markedly.
They have now become defensive and abusive on a large scale as the
veneer is peeled away. (Reminds me a lot of the visitors in "V",
"wolves in sheeps' clothing"). They are being asked to open up to
monitoring (they should welcome it to prove their assertions that
they are not bigoted) and they hit the ceiling. When their absolute
'rightness' is challenged, the forum degenerates into what we are
now beginning to see. It remains to be seen whether this will be
growing pains in bringing about a net where no group presumes its
'rightness' and christianity defers such haughtiness to its own net
or whether the netters will buckle and allow the net to revert back
to the same old christian pulpit.
It is quite obvious that this venom lies just beneath the superficial
veneer of 'love' in the hearts of a large segment of christianity (as
can be seen from the responses posted). It is quite easy to love those
who love you. It is much more difficult to love your adversaries. This
was an integral teaching of Judaism long before christianity came on
the scene. Jews were forbidden to celebrate victory over an enemy
(Prov. 24:17) and were even to assist one's enemy in transporting his burden
(Ex. 13:5) for otherwise 'he may tarry [by the wayside]' and endanger
his life (Talmud, BM 32b; Pes 113b). Will christianity NEVER see that
it got off track when it apostatized itself from Judaism? It seems to me
that the christian notion of love is a) consistent down through the
centuries and b) the most hypocritical notion I can imagine. It should
also be obvious that, in order to be consistent down through the
centuries, and evident on such a scale as we see on the net, it is NOT a
phenomenon of any small atyical representation within christianity. It
is clear from empirical evidence that this is an integral notion of
christianity.
It should give everyone pause to think when we see such things as the
INTEGRAL anti-semitic nature of christianity (as the christian Oxford
scholar Parkes brought out in his book "The Conflict Between the Church
and the Synagogue"), the Donahue shows, periodic remarks against Jews
and other groups from christians, vitriol lying in great abundance just
beneath the surface veneer of christianity, and most especially, the
damning evidence of the centuries...
it absolutely COULD happen here.
(They said it couldn't "there" every time too.)yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/09/84)
If there's anything worse than having an infuriating adversary looming in your face... it is to suddenly discover that you're looking in a mirror. Yirmiyahu Ben-David