yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/16/84)
From: bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) In article <cmu-cs-k.44> tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) writes: >One point on which I completely support Yiri, though, is this crap about >"You Jews are being so paranoid about Christian anti-semitism." That's like >telling a black he's paranoid for disliking the Confederate flag. Jews have >every reason to be paranoid about Christian anti-semitism; there is a long >history of Catholic and Protestant (and minor Christian sect such as the >Jehovah's Witnesses) persecution of Jews. Nor is it long stale history -- >it has been a strong force for repression in this century. I don't disagree with Yiri at all on this point. I witness Brunson's patronizing attitude and the Rev. Rob's attempts at prostylization in net.religion.jewish and am somewhat appalled. There have been some rather veiled references to "christ-killers" in this newsgroup that are TOTALLY UNCIVILIZED by some of our Capital C Christian friends. We've both heard the reverend Jimmy Swaggart deliver unto us his opinion of Jews. I also agree with Yiri that some of us small c christians need to speak up against anti-semitism whether overt or veiled. What I do disagree with is that christianity is, by definition, antisemitic. While there exist christian sects with antisemitism as dogma, most of the historical persecution of the Jews has come from the secular mileu which surrounds christianity. This may be a fine point, certainly moot in the face of the real effects of persecution, but it is an important point when discussing the direction the main body of christian thought has taken in evolving from its roots. (Christianity? Evolve? Oh, I'm gonna hear from Bickford on that one...) *************************** Yiri comments: I seem to have missed some articles (4754-70) which may have been written in the interim here. My position here is based in some measure on the findings of Parkes relative to the inherent nature of antinomianism (which is by its very nature a kind of antisemitism) and on the findings of Bagatti relative to the diametric antinomian opposition between the basic principles of the early church and judaism and its outright persecution and killings of many of the N'tzarim who would not abandon their keeping of Torah. These are inherent in in the very roots and sources of christianity. Unfortunately, there have been a couple who have expected to read the Interpreter's Dictionary, Parkes and Bagatti and understand everything... in accordance with the 'instant breakfast'/'fast food' mentality we have managed to nurture in this country. Nevertheless, Parkes remains a good starting point for those who would like to get a handle on antisemitism in the beginnings of the christian church just as Bagatti remains a good starting point for those who would like to get a handle on the persecution and killing by the early christian church of the N'tzarim who would not abandon their observance of Torah. Likewise, their continued observance of Torah points out the Torah-observant roots of the authentic early teachings of the N'tzarim when their writings were actually penned. From this perspective, one may then view people who oppose antisemitism as not REALLY in the christian tradition even though they think of themselves as representing the better aspects of christianity. I would agree that these people represent the better aspects of human experience, ethics, morals, etc. but that this is really at odds with the concepts around which christianity and the church were conceived.