[net.religion] Brief informatory message about a contributor

rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (11/15/84)

I feel no compunctions about reposting this.  It is not from private mail,
but rather from a public posting in net.news by one Charlie Wingate.  Perhaps
it will shed some light on his true feelings towards members of other
religions, and on the real thrusts behind his statements and articles.

> It's not at all clear that distribution works. (It's also damn hard to
> tell when it isn't working; I suppose some Jew-baiting in net.religion.jewish
> would be an easy way to find out!)  [CHARLIE WINGATE]

For those who wish to see the entire article, it may be found in newsgroup
net.news (Article <umcp-cs.1006>), and those using vnews or some other tool
that implements a *p*arent command will find that such a command will print
the article in question for your perusal while you are reading this article.
(I, for one, back up my statements with documentaion rather than saying "I
already answered that!")
-- 
Now I've lost my train of thought. I'll have to catch the bus of thought.
			Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr

bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) (11/16/84)

In article <pyuxd.269> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:
>I feel no compunctions about reposting this.  It is not from private mail,
>but rather from a public posting in net.news by one Charlie Wingate.  Perhaps
>it will shed some light on his true feelings towards members of other
>religions, and on the real thrusts behind his statements and articles.

I see Rich is contributing to the betterment of mankind again.  I agree
that Charley's choice of wording and example was in bad taste (to say the
least) but I'm not sure he doesn't have the right to apologize before being
branded as an anti-semite.  Many of us keep a firm hand on our pulse each
day to try to overcome the various forms of racism and sexism instilled in
us as members of this society.  Occasionally we slip.  Sometimes we slip
badly.  A little tolerance is in order.  

If an individual continually uses offensive or derogatory language, that
is another matter.  If they defend that language, that is another matter
still.  Fanning the flames of prejudice at the drop of a hat, however,
does nobody any good.
-- 

						Byron C. Howes
				      ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch

mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (11/17/84)

In article <269@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:

>I feel no compunctions about reposting this.  It is not from private mail,
>but rather from a public posting in net.news by one Charlie Wingate.  Perhaps
>it will shed some light on his true feelings towards members of other
>religions, and on the real thrusts behind his statements and articles.
>
>> It's not at all clear that distribution works. (It's also damn hard to
>> tell when it isn't working; I suppose some Jew-baiting in net.religion.jewish
>> would be an easy way to find out!)  [CHARLIE WINGATE]
>
>For those who wish to see the entire article, it may be found in newsgroup
>net.news (Article <umcp-cs.1006>), and those using vnews or some other tool
>that implements a *p*arent command will find that such a command will print
>the article in question for your perusal while you are reading this article.
>(I, for one, back up my statements with documentaion rather than saying "I
>already answered that!")
>-- 
>Now I've lost my train of thought. I'll have to catch the bus of thought.
>			Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr

Since the form of Rich's announcement implies that my net.news posting
shows me to be hopelessly anti-semetic (as do the newsgroups he selected),
I am going to explain why I made such a statement, so that those who are not
familiar with Rich Rosen will not be led to the wrong conclusion.

Those who subscribe to net.test may have noticed an article there in which
I was trying to determine if there were some failures in the distribution
feature.  These articles met with resounding silence.  I then put up the
aformentioned articles in net.news in hopes of finding a wider audience.

The comment about jew-baiting was intended to point up the fact that I would
have been able to get responses by posting something sensitive and
inflammatory in a group where I would be sure to find lots of readers who
would object.  Rich's article implies that I picked net.religion.jewish
because I have some particular grudge or something against jews.  Those who
actually know me know this is not the case.  That group came to mind as
the natural result of two months of argument with Yirmiyahu and Rich (who
has an apparently jewish surname, I notice); I could just as well have
chosen to suggest pro-rape articles in net.women.

Some people obviously cannot recognize a joke when they see one.  Some people
recognize the joke but would have it taken for something else to further
their own causes.  Those who have gone to the trouble to follow the argument
between Rich and I over the last month will be aware that Rich would rather
put his beliefs concerning my thoughts into my mouth, rather than argue
against what I have actually said.  Those who didn't: well, I can hardly
blame you.  Judging from what I have read, Rich is either utterly ignorant
of my beliefs, or is engaging in a campaign of distortion which I for one
find rather unethical.  I would prefer to believe the former; I can be
convinced of the latter.

I have no intentions of posting to net.religion.jewish past this article.  I
have found the hebrew content higher than what I can deal with, and as a
christian I don't find the dicussions particularly interesting.

Charley Wingate   umcp-cs!mangoe

Where true charity and love are found, 
god himself is there.

mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (11/19/84)

My final words:

Judging from the reaction, my remark was obviously a bad idea.  I obviously
should have attached 15 :-)s to it; it was meant as a jest, and I did not
ever have any intention to post such inflamatory articles to
net.religion.jewish.  I am sorry if it offended anyone.  It's quite obvious
to me that attempts at humor have no place on the net except where
explicitly labelled.

Charley Wingate

tynor@gitpyr.UUCP (Steve Tynor) (11/22/84)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Charley Wingate: 
> 
> Some people obviously cannot recognize a joke when they see one.  Some people
> recognize the joke but would have it taken for something else to further
> their own causes.  Those who have gone to the trouble to follow the argument

It is customary to indicate jokes that are not readily obvious (as
is this one...) with a ":-)"  (symbolic for 'tounge in cheek')   It's
sometimes very difficult to tell when someone is serious and when 
he/she is being sarcastic.  When I'm standing face to face with
someone, It's sometimes easy to tell (a facial expression, tone of
voice, etc.) but when reading a net.message,  we have only the text 
of the "joke".  Don't trust your net.audience to be able to read your
mind. 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Eschew Obfuscation.

    Steve Tynor
    Georgia Instutute of Technology

 ...{akgua, allegra, amd, harpo, hplabs,
     ihnp4, masscomp, ut-ngp, rlgvax, sb1,
     uf-cgrl, unmvax, ut-sally} !gatech!gitpyr!tynor