aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) (11/20/84)
Response to Laurie Sefton (pucc-k:afo): > < example of mind-over-matter experiment > > ... if you get someone in such a psychological state that he/she will > believe anything you will tell them, you can get them to do the most > marvelous things, like speaking in tongues. Here we go again.... The mere fact that some experiment shows that the human mind is capable of bizarre turnings, such as interpreting ice as white-hot iron, does not imply that every unusual phenomenon is something similar. > If you can catch someone whose brain is > totally out to lunch, consumed with self-doubts and loathing, why > you can get him or her to do or say just about anything. I don't think my brain was totally out to lunch even in 1972, and it certainly isn't now. Yet I continue to pray in tongues. (I will admit to some major lingering self-doubts; but I know at least one incredibly confident person who also speaks in tongues, so the theory that they are only for the self-doubting collapses.) > I am the sword, the spear, the arrow. You are the flower, the tree, > the vine! Never will I, or anyone force you to be other than what > you are -Never Again! [from Laurie's .signature] "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a person remains in Me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." [John 15:5] -- -- Jeff Sargent {decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "I'm not asking for anyone's bleeding charity." "Then do. At once. Ask for the Bleeding Charity."
afo@pucc-k (Flidais) (11/22/84)
> Me >> Jeff > ... if you get someone in such a psychological state that he/she will > believe anything you will tell them, you can get them to do the most > marvelous things, like speaking in tongues. >>Here we go again.... The mere fact that some experiment shows that the human >>mind is capable of bizarre turnings, such as interpreting ice as white-hot >>iron, does not imply that every unusual phenomenon is something similar. Now there you go again, Jeff, talking in black and whites. I didn't say that psychological phenomena accounts for *all* physical phenomena, nor does it account for all non-immediately-understandable phenomena, I just said it accouns for some of it. But then again, some people seem to want the world on an all-or-nothing proposition. > If you can catch someone whose brain is > totally out to lunch, consumed with self-doubts and loathing, why > you can get him or her to do or say just about anything. >>I don't think my brain was totally out to lunch even in 1972, and it certainly >>isn't now. Yet I continue to pray in tongues. (I will admit to some major >>lingering self-doubts; but I know at least one incredibly confident person who >>also speaks in tongues, so the theory that they are only for the self-doubting >>collapses.) Did *I* say that your brain was out to lunch? Actually, anyone who wants to believe badly enough, even for the sake of group acceptance, will convince himself that he can do the most marvelous things. Just because someone is radiating self-confidence doesn't mean that he has much to back it up with. The false security of a so-called *loving* group can inspire such fantasies. > I am the sword, the spear, the arrow. You are the flower, the tree, > the vine! Never will I, or anyone force you to be other than what > you are -Never Again! [from Laurie's .signature] >>"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a person remains in Me and I in him, >>he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." [John 15:5] >>-- Jeff Sargent I am what I want to be, and not defined by someone elses wishes or threats.... -- Laurie Sefton {harpo,ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!afo I am the sword, the spear, the arrow. You are the flower, the tree, the vine! Never will I, or anyone force you to be other than what you are -Never Again!