mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (11/12/84)
In article <1096@trwrba.UUCP> jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (John T. Nelson) writes: > This is a basic problem... why did God put evil in the world. Good question. Both Judaism and Christianity claim that God did not "put" evil in the world; but it is abundantly clear that if He exists, he allows it to continue. This a fundamental problem with both Judaism and Christianity, and doesn't appear to have any really satisfactory explanation which makes everybody happy. I suggest, for starters, Harold Kushner's book _Why Bad Things Happen to Good People_. I personally don't have an explanation. Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe
ken@gitpyr.UUCP (Ken Hall) (11/15/84)
> > This is a basic problem... why did God put evil in the world. > > Good question. Both Judaism and Christianity claim that God did not "put" > evil in the world; but it is abundantly clear that if He exists, he > allows it to continue. > > This a fundamental problem with both Judaism and Christianity, and doesn't > appear to have any really satisfactory explanation which makes everybody > happy. I suggest, for starters, Harold Kushner's book _Why Bad Things > Happen to Good People_. > > I personally don't have an explanation. Why is there evil? A very good question that both Judaism and Christianity answer. I don't want to get too involved, as it is a very profound question; but it does have an answer. Many places in the Old Testament it says, to the effect, "Can there be evil in the world and God has not created it?" or to put it as Isaiah said, "God creates light and darkness, "He creates good and evil" (paraphrased) Also, we have to realize that the Bible, Old and New Testament, put a very great responsibility of evil upon all men and women. I do not think I have to quote Scripture here. So, who is responsible for evil? God. Man. Or the devil. My opinion is, and I'll admit that it is shortsighted at best, but from what I know about the Scriptures, etc, etc, I think that man is the cause of evil, yet God allows or permits man to do evil, and God also allows or permits satan to do evil; but God allows evil to exist for a GOOD reason. It has to be for a good reason since God is all-good and all-loving. It could be no other way. $$But catch this: God takes the responsibility of evil upon Himself, knowing that man cannot deal with it by himself, and He comes into this world in the form of a man in order to destroy evil or to kill evil or to nullify evil in this world. I know this is very simplified, and that words are not the best way to understand such things, but I offer this short blurb and a beginning to understand this thing called "evil". Ken Hall
walker@noscvax.UUCP (Janet M. Walker) (11/16/84)
>In article <1096@trwrba.UUCP> jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (John T. Nelson) writes: > >Good question. Both Judaism and Christianity claim that God did not "put" >evil in the world; but it is abundantly clear that if He exists, he >allows it to continue. > In my opinion: God gave us Free Will in this world. That means we have the ability, responsibility, freedom to make choices. If we weren't allowed to make 'bad' choices (i.e. those that hurt ourselves or others) then we wouldn't really have free will, would we? I also believe that those who are innocently hurt by others' bad choices will eventually be recompensed far beyond whatever they may have had to endure. Also, if we make a bad choice we will continue to be given the same 'test' until, hopefully, we get it right.
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (11/16/84)
A simple question deserves a simple answer. There is evil because there are other people in the world doing things that might harm us. A hurricane demolishing an entire village is a natural phenomenon, and is therefore not good or evil. The same applies to epidemics and other natural disasters/catastrophes. A person/persons taking advantage of a catastrophe by exploiting the victims (e.g., selling them needed supplies at overinflated prices) might be considered evil. But, then again, if he's the only one making supplies available, and he is taken away/killed/stopped by someone who feels that he is evil, some might consider his being killed/ stopped/whatever to be an evil act. This is because evil is defined as whatever does us harm. The invading armies attacking a city might be considered evil to the city's inhabitants. But the attackers may be attacking because they blame (maybe unjustly) the city they are now attacking for an attack made against THEIR city. Who is evil? Everyone. Because who is evil depends on your perspective. A society may set up rules that describe things that are "evil" not to particular individuals, but rather to the society as a whole. (e.g., treason) To keep a society stable, rules may be defined that make any number of things "evil" or wrong. (e.g., rules on murder, adultery, theft, etc. may apply here) Religion claims that there is something beyond these notions of subjective good and evil, promoting the notion of an objective or universal set of good-evil rules. Yet clearly there can be no such thing. In the "twin cities" example above, who was good and who was evil? Is city 2 evil because they are attacking? Is city 1 evil because city 2 assumes that they committing an "evil" act? Is city 2 good because they justify their attack by saying that a deity has told them that it is good to attack them? (or because they invoke an "eye-for-an-eye" law?) This is a prime example of wishful thinking in religion. It would be nice for there to be absolute good and evil, but given that there are innumerable people with innumerable perspectives on what is good and evil to them, can there be a universal version of the dichotomy that applies to everything the same way (or would you just like it to be that way)? -- "Come with me now to that secret place where the eyes of man have never set foot." Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr
emjej@uokvax.UUCP (11/26/84)
/***** uokvax:net.religion / noscvax!walker / 1:18 am Nov 20, 1984 */ In my opinion: God gave us Free Will in this world. That means we have the ability, responsibility, freedom to make choices. If we weren't allowed to make 'bad' choices (i.e. those that hurt ourselves or others) then we wouldn't really have free will, would we? I also believe that those who are innocently hurt by others' bad choices will eventually be recompensed far beyond whatever they may have had to endure. Also, if we make a bad choice we will continue to be given the same 'test' until, hopefully, we get it right. /* ---------- */ The notion of God executing for x in `ls human` do (while ChooseEvil $x do GiveAnotherChance $x done) & done is as hard to reconcile with the supposed goodness of God as the usual for x in `ls human` do (if ChooseEvil $x then Fry $x fi) & done because arbitrary large finite quantities of suffering can still occur. It seems as though creating humans without free will so they always do the "right thing" would be a lot shorter way to get to the same postcondition. (I myself lean towards Smullyan's comparison of a sentient being exercising free will with a rock in free fall.) James Jones (While explaining things to my parents, I've said that there were those who were convinced that the computers in heaven run Unix and that God is a C hacker, but I still can't believe I did this... :-> )
mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (11/27/84)
Rich Rosen and I agree that evil is rooted in subjective impressions of things that make our relative fitness lower than it could be. Theologians may make up abstract categories and "reasons" (such as Satan) for evil, but if you observe ideas of evil that are not theologically inspired, there is an inverse corellation to whatever we could do to improve our fitness. Recently I read "Journey To The West" (the excellent and lengthy translation by Anthony Yu). I recommend it for non-christian ideas of good and evil, as well as a ripping good folk mythology. It took me a while to get over the culture shock, but in combination with other folk tales and anthropological studies, it has confirmed cultural relativism for me once again. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh