speaker@umcp-cs.UUCP (Animals) (11/27/84)
I hear there's a net.religion.christianity.... way to go guys! Hey, here's a question for you. What's you favorite scolarly research Bible? I'd like something that will get me as close to the original research and ancient texts as I can and without all of the flowery crud one usually finds in the Bible. The NIV Oxford Scofield Study text looks good, but expensive. Is this thing just a waste of money or what? Questions questions questions. - Speaker speaker!umcp-cs
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/29/84)
The only thing which will genuinely do what you ask is to split the quest into two sub-quests: 1.) Regarding the Jewish Bible, use the Masoretic Hebrew, the Septuagint Greek and the Dead Sea Scrolls to establish the best reading of the Hebrew (yes, the Greek sometimes helps to support the Hebrew reading when used along with the Dead Sea Scrolls... read the book on the DSS by Yadin and also by Allegro - both books). If you are not able to do this, don't fool yourself that you are. If you can't penetrate beyond the English then your best bet is to use the Jewish Publication Society version (The Torah, The Prophets, and The Writings, three volumes) AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS NOT(!!) AUTHORITIVE AND DOES NOT(!!) DO WHAT YOU REALLY WANT... IT ONLY APPROXIMATES IT SOMEWHAT. 2.) If you are including the 'New Testament' in your definition, then the best you can do is go to the Novum Testamentum Graeca published by the American Bible Society, replace Vaticanus readings with Sinaiticus readings and consider Peshitta readings and the earlier papyrii readings and translate it yourself with the help of something like the Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament. Be sure to find the best English word for each Greek word, translate it that way literally and then try to understand THAT translation rather than substitue other English words like most translaters have done. That interjects too much bias of Christian translaters into the text - ALWAYS. There is NO substitue for this method and NO English version which will do what you asked. Other aids are available to help most anyone translate for themselves if they have enough concern to learn the Greek alphabet and put in some time... it doesn't go fast if you are a beginner. Nevertheless, you can take the Englishman's Greek Concordance and a Parsing Guide to the Greek New Testament, along with Vine's, and with some determination you can do it. I'm telling you that if you do not do this for yourself, you WILL be deceived!
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/29/84)
Didn't notice that this was also being routed to net.religion. Christian... please excuse.
lisa@phs.UUCP (Jeff Gillette) (12/01/84)
<> > What's you favorite scholarly research Bible? I'd like something that > will get me as close to the original research and ancient texts as I > can and without all of the flowery crud one usually finds in the Bible. Really there's only two "scholarly research Bibles" - one in Greek and the other in Hebrew. My guess, however, is that you want something in English that will give a little more insight into the original languages. Let me suggest a handy little tool that "real scholars" don't use (at least they don't admit to using it) - an interlinear Bible. There are several on the market for Old Testament and New Testament. The basic format is alternating lines of Hebrew (or Greek), transliteration, and a literal English translation. Usually an English version (RSV, NASB, NIV, ETC) is in the margin to help you make sense of the text. I'm afraid these aren't cheap (last time I looked a reasonable New Testament volume might run upwards of $45, three volumes for the Old Testament might run as much as $100), but they are the only tool I know of to get someone who doesn't know the languages into the original text. > The NIV Oxford Scofield Study text looks good, but expensive. > Is this thing just a waste of money or what? I know nothing about the NIV Scofield Bible, but, two words of warning. First, I was brought up on the old KJV Scofield Bible. CI Scofield was a layman around the turn of the century whose devotional and theological footnotes on selected texts popularized a particular approach to theology called dispensationalism. Without getting into an theological argument, let me simply suggest that dispensationalism (and Scofield) have been very controversial, and are generally considered "scholarly" only in some "fundamentalist" circles (and at one seminary of reputation - in Dallas). In short, Scofield is an interesting character, but unless his particular theology is what you want, consider another "scholarly" Bible. The second word of warning. I haven't found a "study Bible" yet that I consider worth buying. The reason is that the only thing to study are the personal observations of the writer(s) - most of which are interesting the first time through, but become old quickly, or, worse, are mis- representing theological hobby-horses for an explanation of the text. A Bible with a good concordance is better than a Bible with "explanatory" notes (a little cross-reference work and you can write your own notes), and a good set of maps will probably tell you more than an "introductory paragraph" for each book. If you want to do careful study of texts in the Bible, consider getting some good commentaries. The Expositor's Bible Commentary (6 of 12 volumes now available) is an excellent lay commentary written by top-notch scholars. In Old Testament, the Tyndale OT Commentary (24 volumes) is outstanding. For New Testament, the Proclamation Commentaries give a lot of good background, but the Word commentaries (much deeper) pay more attention to the text. If all of this sounds expensive, most of these commentaries can be bought one volume at a time (and most of them are paperback). For thematic study, look for tools that show a knowledge of the original languages. The best New Testament tool is the 3 volume New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology. This contains articles arranged by English word, with sections on the term in the OT, literature between the testaments, NT, and early Christian writings. The best encyclopedia I've found is the new International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (3 of 5 volumes out). There is an old ISBE (circa 1920), so be sure to look for the new edition. Most important, of course, is a good concordance. Most good versions of the Bible have complete concordances available, but the most useful tool I can suggest is the Englishman's Greek Concordance and the Englishman's Hebrew Concordance. These jewels let you look up a Hebrew or Greek word, but give all the information in English. The bad news is that everything in this paragraph is *expensive*. But, then, consider how much money you spent on that last *computer* book! I guess I've gone on a bit much for a simple question, but I hope the information is helpful. Jeff Gillette duke!phs!lisa The Divinity School Duke University
speaker@umcp-cs.UUCP (Animals) (12/01/84)
The repsonse has been overwhelming.... From: allegra!ulysses!smb (Steven Bellovin) Let me know what you hear on this. A (secular Jewish) religion professor I knew recommended the Jerusalem Bible; based on my own checking, it seems that it and the NIV are good. In either case, make sure you get the one with *lots* of footnotes; both have simpler editions out. Finally, there's the 8-translation New Testament I mentioned a few weeks ago. From: seismo!harvard!godot!mit-eddie!genrad!bolton!pat (Pat Clayton) The best Bible I've found is the New Amplified Bible. It is easy to read and is supposed to be very close to the original Greek. I also have a Thompson Chain Bible which I've used for years. It is really a matter of personal preference, but I think you'll really like the Amplified. It really helps the Bible to come alive. From: seismo!allegra!ihuxj!humbert If you want a `sc[h]olarly research Bible' which is `as close to the original' as possible, why on earth did you post to net.religion.christian? You should have posted to net.religion.jewish, and perhaps also to net.nlang.greek. The Bible, remember, was originally written in Hebrew. All serious scholarship requires serious effort. Why not learn Hebrew? From: seismo!ihnp4!ihuxj!dob Check out a New American Standard Bible. The NIV has some failings in the translation as compared to the NAS. From: allegra!ihnp4!vax135!gks (Ken Swanson) For a Bible that is close to the original text, get 1) an interlinear Bible - contains RSV or NIV translation (see Zondervan) plus Greek text (usually Nestle's collection of texts) plus literal English translation of Greek words written immediately below (interlinear) the line of Greek text, and/or 2) a critical commentary on the Greek text - this contains the Greek text and variant readings as found among various manuscripts, writings of early church fathers, other translations, etc. - this often includes comments on Greek grammatical constructions and word usage (these commentaries don't usually contain the English translation) - see the Greek New Testament published by the American Bible Society or Nicoll's Expository Greek New Testament or Metzger's Critical Commentary on the Greek New Testament (contains only variant readings and Metzger's reasons for preferring a certain reading.) From: seismo!hao!hplabs!amd!qubix!lab (Q-Bick) For textual exactness, the New American Standard is probably the best. The New King James Bible would probably be next. They come in a variety of wrappings, Ryrie Study and Thomspon Chain Reference predominating. (Scofield's notes are distracting to me, although others find them helpful.) A concordance appropriate to the version you use is very valuable. The search continues... - Speaker