[net.religion] McNees MacAttack on Ben-David

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (12/02/84)

From gkm@ho95b.UUCP (gkm) Sun Feb  6 01:28:16 206
Subject: Re: Christians desecrate Sabbath, not keep it
Lines: 8

Mr. BenDavid:

You constantly refer to your keeping Torah.  I thought one of the
most important aspects of this was the sacrifice of animals for your
sins.  Do you still practice animal sacrifice??

					Sincerely, Gary McNees

*********************************
* Yiri responds:
* WHERE do I constantly keep referring to MY keeping Torah? I've
* tried to be keep my discussions on the level of issues rather
* than what *I* do, etc. It seems to me that you and other Christians
* are simply desperate to change the subject and avoid the issues I
* keep repeating. I will not run off on another subject. Your failure
* to answer the assertions continues to reinforce both the findings 
* of Bagatti and Parkes (and others of course) as well as the simple
* conclusions derived from those assertions. Stick to those issues
* rather than attacking me for typos when I answered a query about
* Mensa on another net, and similar drivel. Stick to the issue until
* you answer it (which is impossible because of historical documen-
* tation) or acknowledge it. What I do or do not do in no way affects
* the truth of the assertions and conclusions I've presented. When
* you get down to personal attacks and challenges to me, you're
* really showing your desperation. 
**********************************

karl@osu-eddie.UUCP (Karl Kleinpaste) (12/04/84)

----------
> Mr. BenDavid:
> 
> You constantly refer to your keeping Torah.  I thought one of the
> most important aspects of this was the sacrifice of animals for your
> sins.  Do you still practice animal sacrifice??
> 
> *********************************
> * Yiri responds:
> * WHERE do I constantly keep referring to MY keeping Torah? I've
> * tried to be keep my discussions on the level of issues rather
> * than what *I* do, etc. It seems to me that you and other Christians
> * are simply desperate to change the subject and avoid the issues I
> * keep repeating. I will not run off on another subject. Your failure
> * to answer the assertions continues to reinforce both the findings 
> * of Bagatti and Parkes (and others of course) as well as the simple
> * conclusions derived from those assertions. Stick to those issues
> * rather than attacking me for typos when I answered a query about
> * Mensa on another net, and similar drivel. Stick to the issue until
> * you answer it (which is impossible because of historical documen-
> * tation) or acknowledge it. What I do or do not do in no way affects
> * the truth of the assertions and conclusions I've presented. When
> * you get down to personal attacks and challenges to me, you're
> * really showing your desperation. 
> **********************************
----------
Hmm...

Yes, Yiri, you have a point.  I cannot recall  any time at which you claimed
that you, personally, do thus-and-so a thing.  No argument there.

However, and not wishing to change the subject or avoid any questions, it is
significant that Christians frequently find themselves on the defensive (and
perhaps deservedly so) because they  themselves  do not always do that which
they claim others should do.  Frequently in these cases, the whole of such a
Christian's argument is  dismissed  because  he cannot or does not "practice
what he preaches."

Hence, it is an interesting question, at least from an intellectual point of
view.  Do  you practice the whole of the Torah? If not, there  is  at  least
historical precedent for telling you to take a hike. (No, I am not doing so,
nor  do  I  ever intend doing so.)  If so, I wonder in all honesty  how  you
manage it.
-- 
From the badly beaten keyboards of                       best address---+
him who speaks in *TyPe* f-O-n-T-s...                                   |
									V
Karl Kleinpaste @ Bell Labs, Columbus   614/860-5107  {cbosgd,ihnp4}!cbrma!kk
                @ Ohio State University 614/422-0915    cbosgd!osu-eddie!karl

rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (12/04/84)

> Yes, Yiri, you have a point.  I cannot recall  any time at which you claimed
> that you, personally, do thus-and-so a thing.  No argument there.
> However, and not wishing to change the subject or avoid any questions, it is
> significant that Christians frequently find themselves on the defensive (and
> perhaps deservedly so) because they  themselves  do not always do that which
> they claim others should do.  Frequently in these cases, the whole of such a
> Christian's argument is  dismissed  because  he cannot or does not "practice
> what he preaches."
> 
> Hence, it is an interesting question, at least from an intellectual point of
> view.  Do  you practice the whole of the Torah? If not, there  is  at  least
> historical precedent for telling you to take a hike. (No, I am not doing so,
> nor  do  I  ever intend doing so.)  If so, I wonder in all honesty  how  you
> manage it. [KLEINPASTE]

Anything to avoid answering Yiri's questions.  That seems to be the rule here.
No wonder he has to resort to "getting nasty".  When you treat what someone
says like garbage, when you ignore what he has to say, when you don't answer
his questions, HOW ELSE DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO REACT?????  (Yes, I speak from
experience, here.)

Either provide reasonable counterevidence to what Yiri says or admit that,
yes, he just might be right.  Or would that be too much to ask?  (Rhetorical
question if ever there was one...)
-- 
"So, it was all a dream!" --Mr. Pither
"No, dear, this is the dream; you're still in the cell." --his mother
				Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr

berger@aecom.UUCP (Mitchell Berger) (12/07/84)

> From gkm@ho95b.UUCP (gkm) Sun Feb  6 01:28:16 206
> Subject: Re: Christians desecrate Sabbath, not keep it
> Lines: 8
> 
> Mr. BenDavid:
> 
> You constantly refer to your keeping Torah.  I thought one of the
> most important aspects of this was the sacrifice of animals for your
> sins.  Do you still practice animal sacrifice??

The Torah commands us to sacrifice animals in the temple. It is
prohibited to do so elsewhere; and we wouldn't be e. If the temple existed I would
be practicing animal sacrifice.

But once I butted in... Yiri, why can't you leave these people alone?
Why are you starting an arguement on a subject that neither you nor they will 
in on? 


                                     michab