[net.religion] Persuasion through Intimidation

gam@amdahl.UUCP (Gordon A. Moffett) (12/10/84)

> = Charley Wingate    umcp-cs!mangoe

> ONLY two major means of persuasion?  Utter rubbish.  How about seduction?
> How about fictional dramatization?  How about ridicule?  Do you own a
> TV?  Watch some commercials.  If you want to know about persuasion, there's
> your best source.

Quite right.  I didn't bother to argue that original assertion about the
two ``major means of persuation.''

> Science as a source of truth (or whatever) is rather overrated.

Yes, but:

>                                                                  Right now,
> it is useless in the realm of personal interaction.  Since no one has
> thus far been able to attach numbers to emotions, what we have are 
> behavioral studies whose meaning is quite unclear.  Take the various sex
> surveys.  Assuming that the numbers collected are sufficiently accurate,
> what do they mean?  Kinsey didn't even bother to ask what people thought
> about the things that they did in bed (or wherever they did it :-)).

I do not know if this is true (Kinsey not asking about what people
thought) but this is not as important as what people DO -- that's
what psychology is about (in my opinion).

It is not true that ``behavioral studies['] ... meaning is quite
unclear''.  They may be unclear to you, but that is not enough to
throw them out.  Psychology IS a science (albeit a social science),
and its data IS [oh, shut up!] useful.  The very TV commercials
you refer to are influenced directly by psychological methods.

> Really, five or ten good novels will tell you more about the human mind
> than all of psychology can (except for works like the books of M. Scott
> Peck, which aren't in the least science).  The arrogance of psychology in
> asserting the validity of its technique is certainly in the same league as
> almost any religion, by the way.  Intimidation is not foreign to science.

This is High Romanticism.  Yes, you will learn a lot about people
by reading great fiction (or non-fiction, even), but don't pass it
off as ``psychology'' -- it's raw data, not science.  (By the way,
Freud in the early days of psychology drew directly from literary
references; the most famous example is ``Oedipus'', originally
a Greek myth, later a play -- a good one, too!).
-- 
Gordon A. Moffett		...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,sun}!amdahl!gam

37 22'50" N / 121 59'12" W	[ This is just me talking. ]