chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) (12/11/84)
[This is rather long and rambling, but it says something that I feel it is
very important for me to say. I hope you will bear with me on the length]
[This may or may not have gone out the first time-- I've sent cancels
spiraling after previous postings, but my apology if you see this twice]
The holiday time is rapidly approaching, and it is a time of year that
means many things to many people. Many religions have major holidays in the
month of December, which gives people an opportunity to refresh their
relationship with their God. It is also a time for rejoicing in the social
relationships that make the holidays so joyful, and a time for quiet
reflection and a rediscovery of the self.
Being brought up in the Judeo-Christian ethic, Christmas has always been a
very important time in my life. When you are young, there is the yearly
drama of wondering if you were good enough for Santa to leave presents for.
As I grew, Santa and the presents became less important-- the family ties
that the sharing of gifts becomes the real part of the holiday.
The retrospection, the self evalutation, stayed as well. Every year, it
seems, I sit down about this time of year and ask myself whether I'm a good
person. Every year, it seems, this triggers a series of events that
reshapes the way my life is led. Most of the changes are triggered because
my self-evaluation forces me to realize where my life isn't working, and I
look for ways to change this. Two years ago, on Christmas, I had my crisis
of faith-- Jesus and I parted when I realized that His path and mine simply
couldn't co-exist.
The solution to the crisis, and the path that I have chosen, were both
shown to me by the saviours of my old faith. In answers to my prayers for
guidance I was shown the way to the path I have since taken. Jesus, through
my prayers, was the one that helped me to realize that His was was not
mine, and He was the one that helped me find the way that does work. This
is why I believe what I do-- Jesus, and other Gods, are not jealous beings;
if another way is appropriate for you, They will help you find it, and be
glad for you. There is no One Way, and there is- all ways lead to the one,
even in their diversity.
Two years ago was the crisis in faith, last year was the crisis in
conscience. Last christmas I became unmarried. Becoming unmarried involves
many things, not the least of which is taking all of the vows you made
before your God and saying 'Remember all those things I said? Never
mind...' In other words, you lied. 'Until death do you part...' well, I'm
alive, and she's alive, and we are parted. You make a promise to yourself,
to her, and to God, and then you break your promise. You have to reconcile
yourself to these failed vows, and learn to move forward. The hardest part
is not the act of divorce, the splitup, or the ending, it is the realization
that you can lie with the best of intentions, you can lie without even
knowing it. Worse is knowing that, because you are human, you will lie
again, because you are human. You aren't perfect, you will break vows, and
there isn't a lot you can do about it. That knowledge hurts.
Which brings me to this Christmas (for those that are beginning to wonder
at the ravings of a madman, this IS going someplace...). The last year, in
retrospect, has been an extremely difficult one for me. It took me a long
time to really reconcile myself to the life that was, to figure out where
my life is, and look at where I want my life to be. A lot of pain, and a
lot of tears, have shown through the last year. I've said quite a few
things that I now wish I hadn't, and I've hurt a number of people that got
in the way of someone who really happened to be innocent bystanders. There
really isn't much you can do to take back the pain, but you would if you
could, and somehow, 'I'm sorry' just doesn't cut it. The best you can
really do is try to keep it from happening again. Those that don't learn
from history are bound to repeat it, and, personally, I don't think I'll
live long enough to make all the mistakes that are possible in my life, so
I don't want to waste a slot by repeating an old one.
The network, and the people on it, have been an important part of my life
for a number of years. For the last year, they have been critical. Many of
my closest friends out out there, somewhere-- people who have hurt when I
cried, who have smiled when I laughed, who congratulated when I succeeded,
advised me when I failed, and who happily jumped on me when I screwed up.
Beyond that, though, is the network itself cares. It isn't one person, it
isn't a group of people-- I actually found that the network, as a virtual
person, has emotions and feelings. The network can care for you, and
console you, and help you feel better-- the network can also take a read
disliking to you and make you feel miserable: it all depends on how you
treat the network. If you love the network, the network will love you back.
The network, all of you, are more than just people, more than just friends.
You are, in a very real way, family. You were there when I needed you, this
last year, and I now see that I wouldn't be where I am today without the
help and support of all of the people that make this network what it is.
I've been asked a number of times why I work as hard to make this network
work as I do-- this is the first time I've really answered that question.
I do it because everyone on this network is part of my family, because I
love you and I believe in the things that this network can do for all of
us. I get a lot of abuse, and some of it is justified-- a lot of it is
because I'm visible. But Usenet is my family, and you do things for a
family that you might not accept otherwise, and you smile. I try to do what
I think is best, and when I'm proven wrong, I don't mind admitting it. But
I DO try, and I will continue to try in the future, because I believe in
what this network is, and what it can be. I know what the network has done
for my life, and if I can help it do for someone else what it has done for
me all of the pain and the hassles and the time I put in will be more than
paid back.
Because the key to all of this is that in my self-evaluations this year I
have come to realize that for the first time in more years than I can
honestly remember I am not looking back at past mistakes. I am finally
looking forward to future triumphs. I'm not patching the bugs of yesterday,
I'm designing tomorrow. This is the most significant step I've seen in my
life, and I know I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the support and help
I've gotten from all of you in the last year. No words can really explain
what this means to me, of course, but I can try:
Thank you, and Merry Christmas
chuq
--
From behind the bar at Callahan's: Chuq Von Rospach
{allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA
You can die of lonliness or you can speak out and say 'I need you.'dave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) (12/12/84)
In article <2028@nsc.UUCP> chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) writes: || ... Many religions have major holidays in the || month of December... Not to flame an article such as this one, but "many religions", Chuq? Christianity is the only religion I know of with a major holiday in December. Judaism has only a minor holiday. Dave Sherman -- {allegra decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo}!utcsrgv!lsuc!dave
riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) (12/12/84)
> So don't buy Jewish friends Christmas presents or send us > Christmas cards. Remember people are all different and this time of > year means something very different to Jews and Christians. Ah, but you're assuming that Christmas is just a Christian holiday! I'm an atheist and yet I celebrate Christmas. (When I was a pre-schooler and attended the Jewish Community Center nursery school I used to celebrate Hanukkah as well, but that's a different story.) I don't always send Christmas cards, but when I do I send them to my atheist, agnostic, Jewish and Hindu friends as well as my Christian ones. For me, as for many non-Christian Americans, Christmas is a secular holiday (albeit one with deep Christian and pagan roots). --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle
west@sdcsla.UUCP (Larry West) (12/15/84)
In article <207@lsuc.UUCP> dave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) writes: >In article <2028@nsc.UUCP> chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) writes: >|| ... Many religions have major holidays in the >|| month of December... > >Not to flame an article such as this one, but "many religions", Chuq? >Christianity is the only religion I know of with a major holiday in December. >Judaism has only a minor holiday. > >Dave Sherman Actually, many religions have [had] celebrations on Winter Solstice -- the days start getting longer again, thus assuring the coming of spring. This is, in fact, why Christmas is celebrated in December, rather than in July, the most likely time of the birth of Jesus. There were old ("pagan", Roman, Greek, etc.) holidays at this time, and Christians picked the date for the same reasons (rebirth, etc.) -- plus, it's easier to change the meaning of a holiday than to start a new one. These holidays are no longer major perhaps because we have more confidence (less thankfulness?) that spring and summer will return. But it's also unclear as to whether Christmas counts as a "major" Christian holiday. A major commercial holiday, yes. -- Larry West, UC San Diego, Institute for Cognitive Science -- UUCP: {decvax!ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!sdcsla!west -- ARPA: west@NPRDC {{ NOT: <sdcsla!west@NPRDC> }} -- -- Larry West, UC San Diego, Institute for Cognitive Science -- UUCP: {decvax!ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!sdcsla!west -- ARPA: west@NPRDC {{ NOT: <sdcsla!west@NPRDC> }}
gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (12/19/84)
> From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) > Two years ago was the crisis in faith, last year was the crisis in > conscience. Last christmas I became unmarried. Becoming unmarried involves > many things, not the least of which is taking all of the vows you made > before your God and saying 'Remember all those things I said? Never > mind...' In other words, you lied. 'Until death do you part...' well, I'm > alive, and she's alive, and we are parted. You make a promise to yourself, > to her, and to God, and then you break your promise. You have to reconcile > yourself to these failed vows, and learn to move forward. The hardest part > is not the act of divorce, the splitup, or the ending, it is the realization > that you can lie with the best of intentions, you can lie without even > knowing it. Worse is knowing that, because you are human, you will lie > again, because you are human. You aren't perfect, you will break vows, and > there isn't a lot you can do about it. That knowledge hurts. This raises something which I have been thinking about over the last few months -- marriage and divorce. (No, I'm not getting married, or divorced :-) This concerns how one should feel after getting a divorce. The vows say, "for richer and for poorer, for better and for worse, till death do you part". Not till divorce do you part. Chuq raises an important point when he says that he felt he was being dishonest with God because he did not live up to the vows he spoke when he was married. My gut reaction is that no, he didn't lie, because to lie is to speak an un- truth, and there was no statement of truth in the those vows I quoted above, just promises. But, how is one supposed to feel after one has broken the prom- ises of the marriage vows. It doesn't really matter if you are or aren't a Christian -- what matters is how you reconcile the breaking of your vows with yourself and your former spouse. I guess I'm rambling a bit, but I'd like to get feedback from anybody who feels like commenting on how to cope with divorce, whether or not people should get divorced, and how to save your marriage even if it looks like it can't be saved. ... Chuq relates his experiences with the net and how they have helped him ... I am glad to hear that you feel so good about the net and all the people who comprise it. I have made some friends myself on the net so I can relate to what he is saying. Thanks for your article Chuq, and keep up the good work -- some of us out there (me for one) appreciate all you've done. -- Baby tie your hair back in a long white bow ... Meet me in the field, behind the dynamo ... Greg Skinner (gregbo) {allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo
jfp@gatech.UUCP (John Passafiume) (12/22/84)
> > From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) > > > Two years ago was the crisis in faith, last year was the crisis in > > conscience. Last christmas I became unmarried. Becoming unmarried involves > > many things, not the least of which is taking all of the vows you made > > before your God and saying 'Remember all those things I said? Never > > mind...' In other words, you lied. 'Until death do you part...' well, I'm > > alive, and she's alive, and we are parted. You make a promise to yourself, > > to her, and to God, and then you break your promise. You have to reconcile > > yourself to these failed vows, and learn to move forward. The hardest part > > is not the act of divorce, the splitup, or the ending, it is the realization > > that you can lie with the best of intentions, you can lie without even > > knowing it. Worse is knowing that, because you are human, you will lie > > again, because you are human. You aren't perfect, you will break vows, and > > there isn't a lot you can do about it. That knowledge hurts. > > This raises something which I have been thinking about over the last few > months -- marriage and divorce. (No, I'm not getting married, or divorced :-) > This concerns how one should feel after getting a divorce. The vows say, "for > richer and for poorer, for better and for worse, till death do you part". Not > till divorce do you part. Chuq raises an important point when he says that he > felt he was being dishonest with God because he did not live up to the vows he > spoke when he was married. > > My gut reaction is that no, he didn't lie, because to lie is to speak an un- > truth, and there was no statement of truth in the those vows I quoted above, > just promises. But, how is one supposed to feel after one has broken the prom- > ises of the marriage vows. It doesn't really matter if you are or aren't a > Christian -- what matters is how you reconcile the breaking of your vows with > yourself and your former spouse. > > I guess I'm rambling a bit, but I'd like to get feedback from anybody who feels > like commenting on how to cope with divorce, whether or not people should get > divorced, and how to save your marriage even if it looks like it can't be > saved. > > ... Chuq relates his experiences with the net and how they have helped him ... > > I am glad to hear that you feel so good about the net and all the people who > comprise it. I have made some friends myself on the net so I can relate to > what he is saying. Thanks for your article Chuq, and keep up the good work -- > some of us out there (me for one) appreciate all you've done. > -- > Baby tie your hair back in a long white bow ... > Meet me in the field, behind the dynamo ... > > Greg Skinner (gregbo) > {allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo I am a new arrival to this group and was truly touched by the comments on marriage and its difficulties. I guess that one issue is that a lot of us enter the married condition with a rather naive view of the world. I don't think any of us ever realize the amount of give and take that goes on, and the fact that you really have to give up part of yourself to succeed as two. My bride and I have been married for 24 years and have had our good and bad times -- every now and then I realize that we have to keep working at it and it is a real job -- other factors such as children (the raising of), job conditions (for both partners), and a host of other things will tend to keep you hopping. I am sure that there comes a time for a lot of folks when they both simply decide that it just isn't worth it -- particularly if the act of trying to save a marriage is more harmful to both parties than a divorce would be. My wife and I have three daughters -- ages 18, 21, and 22 and both of us spend a lot of time worrying about the choices our girls will make for lasting relationships. How do you know if you have a lot in common with a person, and if ten years from now you will still have anything in common. I guess the bottom line is that it is a fundamental part of the human condition. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** -- John Passafiume School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: JFP @ GATech ARPA: JFP.GATech @ CSNet-Relay uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ulysses,ut-sally}!gatech!jfp