rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Pesmard Flurrmn) (01/30/85)
[BACKGROUND: CHARLIE WINGATE posted an article regarding the intolerance of some Israeli Orthodox Jews towards a local Baptist church. BILL PETER followed with the article that Charlie excerpted from in his followup which I quoted below. Cross-posted to appropriate subgroups.] >>Charley Wingate, that great lover of the Jewish people, >>has returned to his old ways by quoting an article which >>decries the right of people to resist proselytizing by >>peaceful means. >>In August, 1981 I saw your Narkis St. friends distribute small >>children's books in a Jerusalem park during a peace demonstration. >>The title of the book was "Great Jewish Prophets." At the >>end of the book was a picture and description of the "greatest >>Jewish prophet" You-Know-Who (situated on a cross). Also was >>detailed a promise of how You-Know-Who will return to Earth >>again, bringing peace to all mankind. [PETER] > So What? What is so evil about that? [WINGATE] The fact that manipulative proseltyzing in an effort to gain converts is NOT seen as "evil" does say something about the mindsets of (some!) Christians with regard to the rightness of their beliefs alongside the wrongness of others' beliefs AND with regard to the rights of other people to their own ways. Perhaps Wingate sees nothing wrong with this sort of proselytizing. Along with many other Christians. But why are those same "many other Christians" fighting vigorously against evolution and "humanist" teachings in the schools? Are only THEY allowed to "proselytize"? >>Do we always have to bear the brunt of these child-molesters, Charley? >>Can't these guys just leave well enough alone? [PETER] > Oh, puleeze.... Does that really justify fire-bombing a church? As > another respondent (whose name escapes me) has pointed out, the article > testifies to a certain lack of consideration on both sides. [WINGATE] As Ari Gross also said, witness the intolerance of the local Jews towards the proselytizing Christian church, but also witness the surrounding Arab countries (Muslims) who have sought continually to eliminate the existence of Israel. Yes, there must be something in the air in that part of the world that brings out the most incredible intolerance. Or could it have more to do with several adamantly rigid religious groups, all of whom have the mindset of group superiority and rightness stemming from their belief that their god is "on their side", living in close proximity to each other? Are we "safe" from this in the Americas simply because one particular group has a clear majority and (they seem to think) a "mandate" of rightness? Or does this make us just as close to the same sort of atmosphere? I assume from earlier postings that Bill Peter is a Christian, and that in the above extract he is asking "Must all thinking rational Christians be tarred by the excesses and violence (psychological and physical) of the Christian extremists?" As a non-Christian, I would say that to an outsider it might appear that way. As Christians (with a stake in the above mindset?), Paul Dubuc and Charlie Wingate have dissociated the Christian belief from that mindset. But the actions of many religious believers of many persuasions shows that the beliefs are inextricably linked to the mindset. > Oh, yeah, the snide comments about my being a "great lover of the jewish > people": lighten up on the polemics, will you? Why is it that it is > perfectly acceptable to complain about "christian" (the quotes indicating > that the people in question often have the most dubious claims to religion) > intolerance of Jews, while at the same time, the intolerance of certain > Jewish groups is a forbidden subject? I might ask why the "christian" (small initial and quoted) intolerance gets some special linguistic treatment to dissociate it from Christianity, while the phrase Jewish intolerance does not. But I won't. I happen to agree with with Charlie *says* regarding the fact that such intolerance as described here (from Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike) represents something heinous and disgusting. But Charlie himself found nothing wrong with the Christian share of the intolerance madness. (The manipulative proselytizing to lure Jewish converts into Christianity.) Sort of a double standard there. But then that's to be expected when the mindset tells you that you're justified in efforts to correct all the wrongthinking people into your "right way" mold. (I mean the word 'you' generically, and I am not referring directly to Charlie.) -- "So, it was all a dream!" --Mr. Pither "No, dear, this is the dream; you're still in the cell." --his mother Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr