mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (02/02/85)
In article <20825@lanl.ARPA> Bill Peter writes: >As far as I can tell, I was not finding any excuses for folks (of whatever >religion they may be) who firebomb churches anywhere. You are right in >condemning such actions everywhere, especially because of the Jewish moral >values you uphold. OK so far.... >The problem is Charley Wingate. He seems to think that devious >psychological manipulations of children by uppity proselytizers is >o.k. (spread the good news and all that), and if some extreme Jews >or Muslims retaliate, he writes it into net.religion showing how >bad they are. I don't care if they protest, I don't care if they try to have the church moved, but I DO mind firebombing things, no matter who. The problem is that these people feel that they are justified in bombing churches, a fact which no amount of personal attacks will erase. >In case you think this is an isolated incident, I was just reading in >an Israeli newspaper (Yediot Achronot) about two students from Oral >Roberts University in the U.S.A. who have admitted being in an anti-Jewish >proselytizing program. The program was set up by the University to send >a fixed number of students to kibbutzim in Israel each year, and to train >these students in how to "bring the Jews to Jesus." Probably when the >Israeli government refuses to grant lengthy visas to these people, Charley >Wingate will broadcast it all across the net. Mr. Peter should restrain his speculations. I don't believe that ORU's actions are ethical. Mr. Peter is, as usual, reading too much into my silence; I simply was not aware of their actions (although I do not find it suprising). As for the implication he makes that Israel has the right, nay, the duty to protect jewish culture/religion from the christians: the same argument justifies a christian nation (such as Britain) acting to supress non-christian groups. Besides, are the minds of jewish children so fragile that they have to be protected from those evil christian missionaries? :-) I find it interesting that Mr. Peter does not condemn the continual brainwashing against christian mores that we see in this country. Would Mr. Peter care to issue a statement? Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe Omnis mundus jocudetur nato salvatore.
wkp@lanl.ARPA (02/04/85)
[Charley Wingate:] > Mr. Peter should restrain his speculations. I don't believe that ORU's > actions are ethical. Mr. Peter is, as usual, reading too much into my > silence; I simply was not aware of their actions (although I do not find it > suprising). O.K., Charley. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. I'll never do it again. Honest. > As for the implication he makes that Israel has the right, nay, > the duty to protect jewish culture/religion from the christians: the same > argument justifies a christian nation (such as Britain) acting to supress > non-christian groups. I made no such implication, Charley. Shame on you. However, I did say that Israel has the right to stop extending the temporary visas of foreign nationals. Especially when such aliens are being mischievous. Would you deny Israel the same right that the U.S. and other countries exercise every day? > >Besides, are the minds of jewish children so fragile that they have to be >protected from those evil christian missionaries? :-) Sigh. Here we go again. People everywhere have the right to their own beliefs without constantly being molested because of them. I have nothing but contempt for people who seek out children as objects of proselytization. Charley, why don't you ask yourself *why* after two thousand years of the history of your religion, you are still peeved that we are unconcerned about your theology? I don't care if you want to worship a nice Jewish boy from Nazeret as your god. But after two thousand years, please leave us alone, and we all can live happily on this planet together. After all, it has been two thousand years. How much longer do you need? >I find it interesting >that Mr. Peter does not condemn the continual brainwashing against christian >mores that we see in this country. Would Mr. Peter care to issue a >statement? First Rich Rosen infers I'm christian, and now Mr. Wingate calls upon me as an expert witness. CONFESSION: I don't know what christian mores are. In fact, I'm not all too sure what christians are. The methodists tell me the baptists aren't, the baptists say the mormons aren't, the catholics say.... Can Mr. Wingate tell us more about his "brainwashing" theory? Does it have something to do with speaking in tongues? Rapture? Revelations? Close-Up toothpaste? My last point, Charley. Are you concerned about the brainwashing in this country against Ubizmatism? Why don't you read up on it? Rich Rosen has all the references. Did you ever wonder why Rich is the only one left...? ----- bill peter {seismo,ihnp4}!cmcl2!lanl!wkp
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (02/07/85)
If Britain would try to do the same I would have to say they are totally
justified. Your question about America though is weak. America is not a
christian nation, in the same way Britain is, so here we cannot protect
christian mores legally. In fact, that is what our country is founded on,
a separation of church and state.
One other point. You shouldn't joke about children's minds, even with a
:-) at the end. Not only children's, but anyone's, mind. Missionaries try
against anyone they can, and I find it disgusting, especially when
impressionable children are concerned.
Eliyahu Teitz.
> .... As for the implication he makes that Israel has the right, nay,
> the duty to protect jewish culture/religion from the christians: the same
> argument justifies a christian nation (such as Britain) acting to supress
> non-christian groups.
>
> Besides, are the minds of jewish children so fragile that they have to be
> protected from those evil christian missionaries? :-) I find it interesting
> that Mr. Peter does not condemn the continual brainwashing against christian
> mores that we see in this country. Would Mr. Peter care to issue a
> statement?