hua@cmu-cs-gandalf.ARPA (Ernest Hua) (02/17/85)
===========================================================================
First, many thanks to all the responded to my first posting entitled
"Why should YOU believe ..."
Now, I must insist that someone please give me specific reasons for
believing. It may help you to note that I am often skeptical and I
find it impossible to believe in the supernatural, whether it is
Jupiter or Jesus. Someone said in a previous article that somethings
are better explained by using God. Really?! Please give me a CONCRETE
example! (You know who you are, and I am sure that many other readers
feel the same way.) By the way, please have enough common sense to
distinguish between concrete facts (e.g. c = 3E+8 m/s) and subjective
concepts (e.g. love). I have seen far too many proofs of God through
arguments like: "If man can love, he must have been created by/through
loving things. Therefore, there must have been a First Cause that loves."
For those of you who cannot seen the fallacies in this argument, read
this example:
Have you ever tried to mix two dyes, one of blue and the other of
yellow? Have you ever noticed that the result is green, which is
neither blue nor yellow. Technicallity: You, as the "Creator"
in this mixing process, are not green either!
Anyway, this is more food for thought ...
Keeblertim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (02/17/85)
No, no, you're going about this all wrong. You are starting with an exoteric view of religion, which requires that a person believe in some real sentient being or beings. This is a foolish thing to do unless you have incontrovertible proof, and no one does. (It particularly annoys me when people say, "Well, I speak with Jesus all the time, and that's how I know he exists", as if a Hindu could not say exactly the same thing about Krishna!) So my answer is, don't believe. The idea of divinity and deity is a model of experiences that are difficult to deal with in other ways. When a skilled person invokes (for instance by prayer), certain unusual mental phenomena occur. These can be used to change behavior or increase insight. The fact that one is standing there acting as if there was a real "god" does not mean that there is; in fact, I feel that the "gods" are probably psychological in nature. Now, if you want to know why you should believe that invocations do produce these phenomena, you will have to do the experiments yourself for a few years. Unfortunately, real success will require fastidiously observed daily invocations, mastery of skills such as acting, visualizing, and speaking, close study of various religious traditions and scriptures, and various other difficulties. -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." Liber AL, II:9.