black@nisysg.DEC (03/01/85)
I think I rattled a couple of Ivory towers recently. Sorry if I shook up anybody too much. I learned a long time ago that to hold a firm Conservative line is extremely difficult. There are people in the world who cannot stand to have their philosophies criticized. It is difficult at best to not take personnally the vitriolic attacks I have received about my beliefs. People have called me a Nazi/Communist, a bigot, a racist, an anarchist, etc. All I want to see happen is a return to the priciples of God's laws and covenants as laid out in Scripture and codified in the Constitution of the United States. (Now, if anybody has a fear of the Constitution, then baby, you got PROBLEMS!) Regarding my comments on homosexuality: If God wanted us to be homosexual, He would have created Adam and Eve and Bruce (My humble apologies to the "Bruces" of the world). My Scripture tells me that homosexuality is an abomination not to be tolerated. Out of fairness, to me that means that these people do have the right to their homes, livlihood, careers, front-seats-on-the-bus, medical treatment, etc. It does not say that I have to associate with them socially, let them teach my children, let them preach off my pulpit, or let them donate blood. Scripture also tells me that God did in Sodom because of the city's sexual preferences. You cannot convince me that AIDS and herpes are not God's warnings to certain people to "cease and desist." To ask me to believe otherwise is to ask me to cease believing in Scripture. To Ken Arndt: Thanks for your support, Ken. I'm always open to commentary. I'll have to take the time to look up those books you mentioned. I do believe that most of the mainstream churches have not fully realized the implications of their liberal leanings. It is only in the last couple of years, for example, that the Roman Catholic Church has realized the demand for the celebration of Mass in Latin. The Lutheran Church has similar problems because of its change in the services. The various synods foisted that ridiculous green tome on us to replace the hymnal that has served for decades if not centuries. (And certain synods who subscribe to the National Council of Churches have ceased following certain key passages in the Book of Concord. Would you believe, they actually advocate reconciliation with Rome?) My consolation is the great upsurge in the congregations of the various Fundamentalist churches such as the Assembly of God, Bible Baptists, etc. (And even better, the increase in the number of Christian politicians. For example, the first time I met Congressman Bob Smith [R-NH] was at a service at the Assembly of God Church in Rochester.) To Jeff Sonntag and Rich Rosen: Come now, gentlemen! Do you never read the newspapers? Or can I assume that the Comintern has abandoned its stated goal of the abolition of religion? Ahhh, I suppose you want me to believe that there is freedom of religion in the Soviet Union. Well, yeah, maybe--but why are there only about sixty churches in Moscow today, when there were over six hundred before the Glorious People's Revolution? Urban renewal perchance? Anywhere the Soviets place their filthy heel, religion is the first element of society to be eliminated. And this not only applies to Christians. Look what happened in Tibet. The Buddhist monasteries were closed and sacked, and the monks either murdered, imprisoned, or exiled. Show me a Communist who wouldn't want to do the same thing in this nation. In this country, one of the greatest enemies of religion is the Rockefeller-supported National Educational Association. This group managed to gain control of the Indiana state legislature, and passed legislation regarding the necessity to certify teachers who work in private schools. Naturally, they required the certification to be to NEA standards. So when the local fundamentalist Baptist Church opened a Christian school, along comes the NEA to control it. Since the NEA demanded that the school use Humanist textbooks (among other things) the school refused to use certified teachers. The result was that Pastor Siliven and six others spent time in jail and paid out many thousands of dollars in fines and attorneys' fees, all for the principle of Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech. Recently the State of Indiana saw the error of its ways, and vindicated the parties concerned. There are other very subtle ways to discourage the practice of religion. For example, certain communities have zoning laws that prohibit the use of a structure as a church if that structure is in an area zoned for residential use only. After all, a church is a commercial business, you understand. So, while it is OK for a Communist cell to discuss Marxism in somebody's living room, a group cannot legally gather to pray or study Scripture, because to do so is construed as holding a church service. The Constitution clearly states that Congress shall pass no law recognizing the establishment of a religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (My, how we tend to ignore the second half of that sentence!) But yet, who determines what constitutes a "religion" in this nation? Why, none other than that bastion of freedom, the Internal Revenue Service! If you want to open a church, which is your right, you must apply to the IRS to be certified as a religion in order to gain tax-exempt status. You don't believe me? Write to them and ask. They'll close you down and seize your assets if you try to claim income tax deductions unless they give you permission to be a church. The A.C.L.U. is another "good buddy" of religion. A creche in Providence is insulting but a menorah on the Boston Common is not (Whoops--careful, Black, you're going too far!). I see an awful lot of atheist businessmen laughing all the way to the bank during the Christmas holidays. Would you like to read a real eye-opener? Read "My Life Without God" by William Murray. Bill is the son of the great atheist theologian, Madalyn Murray O'Hare. Irony of ironies, Bill became a fundamentalist preacher, and he heads an organization that is trying to reverse the trend that his mother started. For those of you who like "War Stories," I'd recommend the bulletin from the Christian Law Association. This dedicated group of legal professionals assists churches with legal problems that arise from the practice of religion. Some of the crap that gets thrown at churches and clergy is simply incredible. In future submissions, I will try to offer reasonable evidence the United States and Canada were founded for Christian purposes, with the intent that God's law would be the law of the land. It is only in recent years that we have become a pluralistic society. I have that evidence in my files, but it is quite lengthy. I will suggest that the best information on the subject can be had from America's Promise, Box 5334, Phoenix, AZ 85010. Speaking of Canada, I see that Ernst Zundel's case went to the jury in Toronto. I sure would like to find out what the man had to say that got him into so much trouble. I wonder if maybe the Institute for Historical Review in Torrence, CA, might have a copy of his book. By the way, I don't like to offer opinions unless I have at least two different sources of information to back it up. If somebody asks me to "prove" something, or "name names," I sometimes prefer to refer that person back to my sources, rather than argue a point in a context such as this. It takes time to type in a refutation; sometimes it makes more sense to point towards a source. I also don't have Scripture memorized, so I'm at a bit of a loss. I put these into the system at the office, but my references are 50 miles away at home. Chew this around for a few days, and I'll be back. I'll try to answer "flames" right here in public in a non-flammable manner. Keep in mind that I try not to take diatribes personally. In Hoc signo, Don Black Path: ...decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-nisysg!black "if My people, which are called by My name, will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." --2 Samuel 7:14
sommers@topaz.ARPA (Liz Sommers) (03/02/85)
All I want to see happen is a return to the
priciples of God's laws and covenants as laid out in Scripture and
codified in the Constitution of the United States. (Now, if anybody
has a fear of the Constitution, then baby, you got PROBLEMS!)
God and Scripture are NEVER mentioned in the Constitution. God is mentioned
(I think once) in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson, Adams, Monroe
and many of the other framers felt that it was unconstitutional for their to
be a Congressional Chaplain, much the less a state church.
Please cite your references for codification of religious principles in the
Constitution.
--
liz sommers
uucp: ...{harvard, seismo, ut-sally, sri-iu, ihnp4!packard}!topaz!sommers
arpa: sommers@rutgers
what's a nice girl like me, doing on a net like this?urban@spp2.UUCP (Mike Urban) (03/04/85)
In article <806@decwrl.UUCP> black@nisysg.DEC writes: > ... You cannot convince me that AIDS > and herpes are not God's warnings to certain people to "cease and > desist." To ask me to believe otherwise is to ask me to cease > believing in Scripture. What's the passage in scripture that refers to cold sores? What is the behavior of the hundreds of heterosexual victims of AIDS in Africa that they must "cease and desist"? Kindly clarify. > The Constitution clearly states that Congress shall pass no > law recognizing the establishment of a religion, nor prohibiting the > free exercise thereof. (My, how we tend to ignore the second half of > that sentence!) But yet, who determines what constitutes a "religion" > in this nation? Why, none other than that bastion of freedom, the > Internal Revenue Service! If you want to open a church, which is > your right, you must apply to the IRS to be certified as a religion > in order to gain tax-exempt status. You don't believe me? Write to > them and ask. They'll close you down and seize your assets if you > try to claim income tax deductions unless they give you permission > to be a church. This could also be construed as a powerful argument that churches and religious organizations should be subject to taxation exactly the same as any other profit-making organization, or should be subject to exactly the same "educational/non-profit" criteria for tax exemption as secular organizations. In other words, we agree that the State SHOULD NOT be in the business of determining what constitutes a *bona fide* religion. Of course, nobody is stopping you from starting a church *without* tax-exempt status. Mike Urban {ucbvax|decvax}!trwrb!trwspp!spp2!urban "You're in a maze of twisty UUCP connections, all alike" -- Mike Urban {ucbvax|decvax}!trwrb!trwspp!spp2!urban "You're in a maze of twisty UUCP connections, all alike"