ellen@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/14/85)
gee, Charley, i feel bad; you left me out of your remarks (which were directed
to Laura Creighton) about the Goddess. to be honest, while i was not an overt
follower of the Goddess back then, i stopped mouthing this "in God we trust"
crap back in the mid-60's, when this "wonderful" country (so "Godly") was
in Viet Nam.
i think that reference to deities does not belong on anything which comes from
our government (or any government), as choice of religion (or NON-religion)
is a PERSONAL decision, and should not be legislated or even alluded to.
if our government is of this secular world, let it remain so. if your religion
claims to RULE (which mine does not) another world, let it govern there.
the two should not be mixed. look at Iran, with its official religion,
persecuting those of other religions, particularly B'hai, and oppressing
women in the name of their God. ptooey!
your God belongs with you and those who believe as you do, as mine (not a God,
anyway) belongs with me and mine. our constitutional rights are being
undermined by religious groups (read Christians) who want their God legislated
into power. you would not fare well in countries with officially recognized
religions other than Christianity, why foist it upon others, even Rich (Wag
that Staff) Rosen, who should be entitled to his beliefs without fear of
retribution or persecution. (hell, i was an atheist for my whole life, still
am, now i'm for thea- and theo- (& theae and thei as well)(pardon the false
etomology, please).)
Indonesia, which country i have intimate knowledge of, originally recognized
only Islam. under pressure, the government recognized two more religions
(this will warm your hearts), christianity and catholicism. the whole island
of Bali is Hindu, but the government defines religion as having one god only,
so millions of people didn't count; and since Buddhists believ in NO god,
that meant that they were communists, since only commies believe in no god,
and most Indonesian Buddhists are of Chinese descent, and we all know that
they're all commies) (no smiley, cuz this isn't funny at all; it infuriates me)
finally, under much pressure, the government accepted Hinduism & Buddhism as
religions, but if you're not Balinese, you'll face persecution if you claim to
be a Hindu, and worse (like incarceration) if you claim to be a Buddhist (cuz
Buddhists are still really commies/Chinese; those born in Indonesia of Chinese
descent (and this could mean many generations), are NOT considered Indonesian
unless they apply for official Indonesian citizenship). all indigenous
beliefs are not considered religions, and a citizen MUST specify an official
religion on their documents (!). there are over 300 different cultures lumped
within the archipelago of Indonesia. can this really be considered fair?!?
now, in WHOM do we trust?
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///|\\\ Not responsible for typos or
/// \\\ grammatical or syntactical errors.
//{o} {o}\\ the <finger> of G-d made me do it.
ll " ll it's all part of the <plan>.
'll ~ ll` Eunuchs are not a trademarks of anybody,
lll lll at least not anybody i know :-)
''' ```
==============================================================================rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Professor Wagstaff) (03/21/85)
>> our constitutional rights are being >>undermined by religious groups (read Christians) who want their God >>legislated into power. you would not fare well in countries with >>officially recognized religions other than Christianity, why foist it upon >>others, even Rich (Wag that Staff) Rosen, who should be entitled to his >>beliefs without fear of >retribution or persecution. (hell, i was an atheist >>for my whole life, still am, now i'm for thea- and theo- (& theae and thei >>as well)(pardon the false etomology, please).) [ELLEN PERLMAN] > Ellen, could you actually read what I say? I have no truck with these types > who want to make christianity (meaning their brand of evangelism) the state > religion. The denomination to which I belong vigorously opposes such a > move, and I agree with them completely. For one thing, any state religion > of the form they wish it to take would soon be hopelessly corrupt. [WINGATE] You may have "no truck" with them, but hitching a ride with them isn't beneath you, apparently. I'd say that Ellen has legitimate concerns expressed here, and that your denial of them as issues (e.g., by failing to respond to the Black articles) speaks for itself. > I am really getting tired of the people on this net who cannot distiguish > the various groups within christianity. Anyone who identifies Jerry Falwell > with the Protestant Episcopal Church in the USA is just plain ignorant of > the facts. Given the way Charley so adamantly doth protest too much when lumped in with "Falwellism" (based on his actions, whether he consciously agrees with the notions or not, with regard to that lumping I'd say rightfully so), perhaps this is some sort of subconscious fifth column. "No, I disagree with all that they stand for, but somehow I'm moved to support every notion that they put forth with my actions". -- "When you believe in things that you don't understand, you'll suffer. Superstition ain't the way." Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr