dbrown@watarts.UUCP (Dave Brown) (03/27/85)
> > Tell me something. You seem to believe that the silence idea is holding in > > all such situations. I have not seen Black's writing, but from what you > > have told me, it is pretty bad. So, with my limited knowledge, I condemn ***** Note: I said I had limited knowledge of what was said; the net works slow at times. I did read the many articles about Black before I read Black yesterday. From what I read, although admittedly I should have waited, I condemned what Black was saying. > > what I have read. But,***haven't you ever heard the turn the other cheek > > parable? Why give such prominance to such drival. Rich Rosen did it in order > > to bait Christians. It is one of his favourite pasttimes by the volume of > > his stuff he posts. BUT, I, along with most people just disregard all of such > > trash. > > FLAME ON: > Listen, buster. First you say you haven't read what was posted, thus admitting > that you have NO idea what was said. (How you managed to ignore it is beyond > me.) Then you proclaim the wondrous "christian" behavior of turning the other > cheek, again without knowing what was said, though I recall you failed to > turn any cheekturning yourself. In fact (third), you accuse me of posting I wanted to ignore what Black was saying, because it seemed not worth the effort Little did I realize how bad Black writings were. However, I do agree that cheek turning is not meant for ignoring evil. Thanks for pointing that out to me; isn't it marvelous where and who God can work through in order that Christians may grow. However, though cheek turning does not mean ignoring evil, I still say that giving prominance to a view from a % minority of below 1 is giving more prominance than it is worth. I don't like the thinking that Black does. But,******I****** have to deal with that. Turning the other cheek is suppossed to reek burning coals(guilt) over his head. Black has got a trem- endous amount of advertising out of this net. In the end, does his beliefs really deserve that much comment? I deplore someone that advocates hatred of others, but Jesus' message is one of love, not hate. And Rich, all I see in whatever you write is hate. I'm not saying that I or Wingatte or others do not show hate; we do, but for us, hatred of a person(instead of hatred of evil in our own lives) is just as bad.(If the other Christians disagree with this, feel free to post that disagreement, but do so lovingly and without hate) To me, God hates all sin, even anger(read Matthew 5:22/anger=murder). > drivel in order to bait Christians. Probably because you didn't read any of > THAT either and are still quick to make judgments about that which you have > no familiarity with. Some Christian. > Rich why did you turn around the arguement and say "Where are the Christians?" I realize that you attacked Black, but why turn around and attack us with our disregard for such drival as coming from Black. Do we all have to do things like you? > > Now for my flame: > > TO RICH ROSEN, KEN ARNDT AND OTHER SUCH NET LOVERS: > > JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T ANSWER YOU IN THE NET DOES NOT MEAN WE DON'T > > HAVE AN ANSWER. THE NET IS ONLY ONE SMALL PLACE, RATHER INSIGNIFICANT > > WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE. WHO CARES WHAT RICH ROSEN ET. ALL SPROUT > > OFF, AND WHO CARES WHAT BLACK POURS FORTH. I CARE ABOUT WHETHER PEOPLE > > LIVE AND DIE AND ENJOY THEIR LIVES. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE FEAD > > WITH THE AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL, MECHANICAL, AND INTELLECTUAL ENERGY WE USE > > ON THIS NET. > > Interesting how you "talk" (like Wingate) about "caring" whether people > live and die and enjoy their lives. Funny, Black would appear to prefer I trust that in a country like the U.S. their are enough people who believe Black's ideas to be beneath contempt that Black will never get to implement them. Once again, I condemn Black's diatribes. But, in the end, what else can I do? I can reason with the man, but he seems unreasonable(I may be wrong). Or I could post my attacks against what he is saying. But, will that really get the arguement somewhere? Probably not. He'll still believe and be more obstinate, and I'll still believe and be angry. As for others, I trust we all on this net have the intelligence to make a decision for ourselves. > If you had read the anti-Semitic, anti-homosexual, anti-non-Christian, > anti-freedom diatribes he's posted, you MAY (??) have had something to say > given your acknowledged position on "caring". But not having done so, Let me turn that around for a second; you attack me for caring. What and how do you care about such problems in the world? Do you try to do anything about the suffering going on around you. I try, though I may stumble, I try to finish the race set before me. You probably do do something. If you do I congratulate you for it. But, I will tell you now, even though I know it isn't turning the other cheek, I try my best, but I am only one man. Without God, their would be no hope of succedding. But their is God, and their is hope. > you feel obliged to pummel those people who have something to say about > it, who ask what Christians have to say about it. Thanks for letting us Touche: I should not have pummelled anyone, but this net has a way of doing that to people. One reason why I am leaving. However, your asking had a tremendous likeness to a sneer at us. Still, that is no reason to pummel someone. Please forgive me. > know what you have to say, what your answer to all that really is: squat. WAP!!!!!!! CCCCRRRREEEEAAAAKKKK!!!!!!! STRIKE ME ON THE OTHER CHEEK, Rich. > Perhaps, not being a member of any of the groups affected by the above, > you feel free to engage in cheekturning. Flaming hypocrite... Wrong Rich,but I will ignore that. Arguing gets us nowhere, incase nobody has noticed yet. > > > IN FACT, THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY SPENT ON THE PHONE > > BILL. > > THIS MAY SOUND RATHER PREACHY, BUT QUITE FRANKLY, I'M RATHER GLAD I > > AM LEAVING THIS NET, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU, > > AS THE CHRISTIAN THAT I AM, YOU ALL, AND LET ME REPEAT THAT, ALL, > > IN SUCH POLITICAL AND INTELLECTUAL NETS, ARE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME > > DISCUSSING THINGS WHILE PEOPLE ARE REALLY HURTING OUT THERE. GO AHEAD, > > FLAME ME OR SEND ME VICOUS MAIL. I WILL IGNORE IT AND DO BETTER AND MORE > > IMPORTANT THINGS. > > Like fight against people like Black? Like supporting the freedoms that > would allow people to "live and die and enjoy their lives"? Or like > turning the other cheek... Sounds more like rolling over and playing dead. > "When you believe in things that you don't understand, you'll suffer. > Superstition ain't the way." Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr We could argue that last point, but we won't. You see, I am a pacifist, yes an evangelical, Bible believing, Christian pacifist. And as a Christian, I believe that the cares of this world are all passing away. Life is not the most important thing to me. Yes, I will do my best for other people, but that is because 1. Christ commands it. 2. Others can be lead to Christ through my actions. 3. God loves me, so why can't I spread that peace(yes, peace) and tranquility that he gives me. For though I suffer persecution, and I do, although not as painfull as it would be under Black, in the end, that persecution is not going to triumph, even though it may seem to us. I pray for our leaders, even those who I disagree with, or who aren't Christian. And yes, I pray for Black and you Rich. Still, my faith comes from a long line of Pacifist martyrs, for I am Mennonite. But you Rich are not a pacifist, nor a Christian. You, from what I remember, are a athiest(correct me if I am wrong). Your world view is different from mine. So arguing will get us nowhere, except angry, flaming angry. For myself, anger at you or Black or anyone else does not glorify God, which, in the end is my final purpose. But, I don't expect you to understand that Rich. If anyone out there disagrees with me, even you Mr. Black,tell me so, but please do it without hatred or anger. Isiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be as wool." Matthew 5:43-48- "You have heard that it was said,'Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your Father is perfect." I go on too long. Sincerely yours, DAVE BROWN