wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/21/85)
As a Mormon, I feel compelled to make a few clarifications on Holly's recent article attempting to interpret Mormon beliefs on the afterlife. I am not castigating Holly or accusing her of deliberate distortion. I can see why she misunderstood our belief regarding "who goes where", since what we believe and teach is quite different from the "one heaven -- one hell" concept of most "fundamentalist" Protestants. I hesitate somewhat to enter this fray, because "net.religion" often (usually? always?) tends to be much more of a flame pit than a forum for discussion of religion and religions -- but someone's got to set things straight on this issue, and it might as well be someone who knows first- hand about the subject matter. NOTE: The following material admittedly contradicts the "traditional" Christian concept of the afterlife. I freely admit, right up front, that Mormon beliefs are not adequately documented by the Bible as we have it today. However, this does not bother me as a Mormon, because I do not consider the Bible to be the one and only unique, complete, flawless revelation from God to man. Hence, any flames of the form "that's not taught in the Bible" will have no effect on me. Holly said: > [The idea of] the Mormons believing that all people are > going to heaven IS WRONG! Only if you are Mormon will > you achieve the different levels of heaven. Joseph > Fielding Smith once quoted what Brigham Young once said, > "...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter > into the Celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of > Joseph Smith". Right there the Mormons are saying unless > we are Mormon we will not enter Heaven. Yes and no. The problem here is in what exactly is meant by "Celestial Kingdom", and how this concept maps into the traditional Christian un- derstanding of "Heaven". Latter-day Saints (which is the term we prefer to use when referring to ourselves, by the way, rather than "Mormons") believe in four basic states of man in the hereafter. For anyone interested in referring to LDS sacred writings regarding this belief, the primary source for the following is Section 76 of the "Doctrine and Covenants" -- usually ab- breviated "D&C" (OB/GYN pun unintended). (1) The "Celestial Kingdom": The place where God (our Heavenly Father), Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost dwell. (D&C 76:50-70) Those who will live here are those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Redeemer; repented of all their sins; been bap- tized by immersion by someone with legitimate authority from God; received the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (again, by someone with legitimate authority from God); and "endured to the end" (that is, sought to pattern their conduct thenceforth after that of Jesus Christ). Please note that this definition does *NOT* encompass only those who join and participate during mortality in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the "Mormon Church"), for three main reasons: (a) The Gospel of Jesus Christ has, we believe, existed on the earth many times (it was even around before Christ's mortal life). We call these periods of times "dispensations", by the way. Those people who accepted and lived the Gospel in previous dispensa- tions will be heirs to the same blessings as those who accept and live it now. (b) We believe that those people who failed to accept and live the Gospel during their mortal lifetimes through no fault of their own -- either because it was not available in their time and/or area, or because they never came across it, or because they did not recognize it for what it was at the time -- will have the opportunity to accept and live the Gospel in the afterlife and thus inherit the Celestial Kingdom too. (D&C 137:7-9. This section comprises a vision by Joseph Smith in 1836, but wasn't added to the D&C until a few years ago -- so you might not find it if you look at an old copy in the public library.) Not all such people will accept and live the Gospel in the afterlife, though -- any more than people seem inclined to do so now. (c) We believe that all children who die before reaching the "age of accountability (eight years old) are automatically saved through the atonement of Christ, and will inherit the Celestial Kingdom. (D&C 137:10; D&C 29:46-50; D&C 68:25-27) This, by the way, ap- plies whether they were "baptized" or not (indeed, we don't bap- tize babies anyway). (2) The "Terrestrial Kingdom": a place for the "good, but not valiant" people of the earth. (D&C 76:71-80) The Terrestrial Kingdom will be inhabited by people who were "honor- able" in this life, but who had no real desire to seek out God and obey Him. This is in contrast to those people who "died without a knowledge of the gospel, . . . who would have received it with all their hearts" (D&C 137:7-8) -- and who will thus inherit the Celes- tial Kingdom. (3) The "Telestial Kingdom": a place for most hard-core sinners. (D&C 76:81-90, 99-112) The inhabitants of the Telestial Kingdom are those who have indulged in serious evils and not repented of them. They will have to suffer for their own sins (D&C 19:15-20), since they reject the atonement which Christ made in their behalf -- but they will eventually attain a kingdom whose glory "surpasses all understanding; and no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it" (D&C 76:89-90). The origin of the word "telestial" is uncertain, but it may be con- nected with the Greek root "teleos" (complete, final; cf. the word "teleology"), since these are the last people who will inherit a kingdom of glory. (4) "Outer Darkness", "Perdition", or "Hell": a place for those who completely reject God with full knowledge of their actions. (D&C 76:32-39) Inhabitants of this kingdom are called "sons of perdi- tion", but "sons" here is probably not meant to exclude women. Satan and his angels will be here, together with an unknown (though probably comparatively small) number of other people who have re- ceived great blessings and understanding from God and then turn away completely from it. Of those mentioned in the Bible, we know that Cain and (probably) Judas Iscariot have become "sons of perdition"; Joseph Smith suggested that some of the early apostates from the LDS Church (many of whom became vicious and eventually participated in the prophet's murder) would also gain this dubious distinction. The first three categories are often called the "three degrees of glory" in LDS literature. We believe that those in "higher" kingdoms can (and sometimes will) visit and minister to those in "lower" kingdoms (except for Outer Dark- ness or Perdition). For example, Jesus Christ will periodically visit the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Holy Ghost will likewise visit both the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. (LDS theology teaches that God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate individuals, united in thoughts and purpose but not in substance; we reject the traditional concept of the Trinity.) LDS people don't generally use the term "Heaven" (in the sense of "going to Heaven after death") -- and, from the above explanation of our con- cept of the hereafter, I trust you will see why. However, I could rea- sonably map the traditional Christian concept of "Heaven" into my view of reality in two different ways: (1) Heaven <==> all three "degrees of glory". If you use this defini- tion, then you can accurately say that Mormons believe almost all people will "go to Heaven". (2) Heaven <==> the Celestial Kingdom. If you use this definition, then a statement that "Mormons think only Mormons will go to Heaven" is a reasonable first approximation (but look again at my comments above on who will go to the Celestial Kingdom). So, when Brigham Young said what Holly quoted above (and, as far as I'm aware, the quote is accurate -- I've heard the same thing before), he was not saying that all non-Mormons would go to Hell. Read the quote again, now that you understand what we mean by the phrase "Celestial Kingdom", and you will see this. I might also suggest that -- since traditional Christianity has often consigned both the "honorable people" and the unrepentant evildoers to eternal burning in Hell -- the LDS concept of the afterlife is really considerably more liberal and charitable than the traditional view. In both the quote above and the following one -- > Another quote from Brigham Young, "Every spirit that > confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived > and died a Prophet, and that the Book of Mormon is true, > is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti- > Christ". -- I get the impression that Holly thinks we are placing Joseph Smith in the place of Jesus Christ. We most definitely do not. We do believe that Joseph Smith was entrusted by Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ with the serious responsibility of being Their spokesman to the modern world. We believe that the Christianity of Joseph Smith's time had lost many crucial teachings, and that it had long since lost the authority to administer the Gospel. In order to restore these things, a prophet needed to be chosen and given authority to start up the Church anew. This prophet, we believe, was Joseph Smith. He was a human being just like the rest of us. He was NOT perfect or sinless (I could cite you several revelations in the D&C where the Lord takes Joseph to task for not being diligent enough in his family and other duties, but this mes- sage is already getting long enough as it is); but he did perform his job in an acceptable way. Among the responsibilities which we believe Jesus Christ has given to Joseph Smith for the life to come is to be the "head" or "leader" (sub- ordinate to Christ Himself, please note) of those who accept and live the Gospel in the present period of time. This is the same kind of responsibility which was given to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, and others for the periods of time during which they lived and during which they were given responsibility for administering the things of God. Thus, when Brigham Young said that the people of "this dispensation" would get into the Celestial Kingdom only with the approval of Joseph Smith, he was simply acknowledging Joseph's responsibility as the leader of this dispensation (our time). Nothing more. And when Brigham said that every spirit that was from God would acknow- ledge the validity of Joseph Smith's mission, this is only logical when you consider (as we do) that God is orderly in what He does, and is not going to simultaneously set up two or more different sets of spokesmen to contradict each other's work. Lastly, regarding Holly's observation: > Joseph Smith claimed to do what Christ failed to do and > that is establish His church. I find that blasphemous! No, Joseph Smith didn't claim that he was doing something Christ had failed to do. Christ did establish His Church -- not only in the first century A.D., but at many other times and in many other places. (One of these is discussed in the Third Book of Nephi in the Book of Mormon, by the way -- see 3 Ne. 11-26.) However, people have (and always have had) the freedom to follow truth or to reject it. In each of the previous "dispensations" when the Gos- pel of Christ has been established and available, it has eventually been lost through the disobedience of the people of the time. Joseph Smith reestablished Jesus Christ's Church on the earth -- not because he thought it would be a neat thing to do -- but because Jesus Christ Himself told Joseph to do it, and told him how to do it. For someone to do what the Saviour tells him/her to do is not blasphemous. (The whole issue does admittedly turn on the question of whether in fact Joseph Smith was taking his instructions from Christ or not; that is a matter of prayerful study and, in the final analysis, a question of faith.) I'm sure the above description is woefully incomplete in some areas, and may be unclear in others -- and I have no illusions that everyone on the net is going to become a Mormon after reading this article -- but I hope at least that some of the misunderstandings have been cleared up. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Rich Wales University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) Computer Science Department 3531 Boelter Hall Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Phone: (213) 825-5683 // +1 213 825 5683 ARPANET: wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA UUCP: ...!{cepu,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!wales -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "UCLA" is a registered trademark of The Regents of the University of California -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (03/28/85)
THANK YOU! A very good posting of religious discussion. Such a breath of fresh air on this net. You have presented points I feel a need to try to understand. Can you suggest any readings that might help me? BTW, if your knowledge is an example of an average member of your church, I and many others have been dead wrong when we have called your mebership "Morons" in a "cute" play on words. This type of slur will not come from this person again. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***