cs193bah@unm-la.UUCP (04/01/85)
>As you all seem to desire, I'm going to crawl back into my cave with >the other dinosaurs. (They actually make better company than some humans.) >Veni, vidi, vici. >[DON BLACK] Earlier, you were Constantine; now you're Julius Caesar. Which is it? Are you really leaving, or are you going to get resurrected on Easter? What's Russel Spence going to do without his fuehrer? How will Jeff Gillette feel? Speaking of Gillette, he seems to think that Don Black is a good 'ole boy with just a lot of questions (like "What death camps?"). This scares me. Either Gillette is incredibly naive or incredibly deceptive. Even at the finale, Black made the following comment: >This same person would slam the jail door on Ernst Zundel or provide the >match to burn a library. Does Ernst Zundel represent an entity that it is important for Jeff Gillette to defend? Ernst Zundel is a balding, middle aged man who was born in Germany in 1939 with a passion to rehabilitate the repu- tation of Hitler and the Third Reich. He calls his house his BUNKER, AND HAS A SCALE MODEL OF AUSCHWITZ IN HIS BASEMENT! (With only one oven, of course: remember? no death camps). What were the supernaturalists doing while Black was vilifying the Jewish people? Almost nothing. Reverend Bob advised Don Black that it will be difficult for christians to proselytize to the jews if "they think we wish to color them gone." Marchionni got into a theological debate with Black, scolding his critics, and commenting on how he "had no qualms with Black." Jeff Gillette thought that Black was another victim of Rich Rosen's christian baiting (not mentioning how he himself was once a charter member of the Yiri Ben-David baiting club). ONLY THOSE INDIVIDUALS LIKE RICH ROSEN AND BYRON HOWES WHO HAVE CONSISTENTLY ARGUED FOR REASON AND KNOWLEDGE IN HUMAN DECISIONS AS OPPOSED TO SUPERSTITION AND INTOLERANCE MADE THEIR VOICES HEARD 100% AGAINST DON BLACK. It is true that later Charley Wingate and Richard Carnes made their voices heard. And even Marchionni later said that Black's positions were not of the RC church, and went back to discussing transubstantion. BUT IF IT WERE NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ROSEN OR MARONEY OR HOSHEN, WE WOULD BE STILL LISTENING TO DEBATES ON WHETHER OR NOT THE JEWS ARE CHRIST-KILLERS, ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A HOLOCAUST, OR WHETHER OR NOT JESUS WAS AN ARYAN AND HITLER WAS HIS PROPHET. As we watch Black fade into the sunset, let us recall the words of Thomas Jefferson (he's the one who wrote the Bill of Rights, remember?): It says something to all those who wish to make of their nationalism a religion: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that G-d is just." -- bill peter {ihnp4,seismo}!cmcl2!lanl!wkp
mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (04/02/85)
In article <273@unm-la.UUCP> cs193bah@unm-la.UUCP writes: >Speaking of Gillette, he seems to think that Don Black is a good >'ole boy with just a lot of questions (like "What death camps?"). >This scares me. Either Gillette is incredibly naive or incredibly >deceptive. Even at the finale, Black made the following comment: >ONLY THOSE INDIVIDUALS LIKE RICH ROSEN AND BYRON HOWES WHO HAVE >CONSISTENTLY ARGUED FOR REASON AND KNOWLEDGE IN HUMAN DECISIONS >AS OPPOSED TO SUPERSTITION AND INTOLERANCE MADE THEIR VOICES >HEARD 100% AGAINST DON BLACK. But Rich argues against EVERYTHING to which anyone has ever attached the name of Christ, and thus does not count. Byron Howes, if I recall correctly, is sort of a gnostic christian. Bill, if you are going to claim that Rich argues for reason, you are all wet. As far as I can tell, Rich is arguing for shouting at the top of your lungs. I too was puzzled at Jeff's response, but unlike many on this net, I do not presume to know what's happening down there at Duke. I rather had the impression that he simply had not seen much of the argument. I fully apreciate his reluctance to jump into the fray, seeing as how Rich had decided to turn the whole thing into a kind of litmus test (one, I might add, which could not be passed). >It is true that later Charley Wingate and Richard Carnes made >their voices heard. And even Marchionni later said that Black's >positions were not of the RC church, and went back to discussing >transubstantion. BUT IF IT WERE NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ROSEN OR MARONEY >OR HOSHEN, WE WOULD BE STILL LISTENING TO DEBATES ON WHETHER OR NOT >THE JEWS ARE CHRIST-KILLERS, ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A HOLOCAUST, >OR WHETHER OR NOT JESUS WAS AN ARYAN AND HITLER WAS HIS PROPHET. The last statement may be true, but not for the reasons Bill implies. This whole thing had apparently passed through several rounds of replies before I was even aware of it. Having 'rn' at my disposal, I do not hesitate to edit out great reams of material. It appears therefore that we would NOT have ever heard these arguments had not Rich and his ilk drawn them out of the man. I suspect my experience parallels that of many others on the net. When you start to tar people because they do not respond to articles, remember that the net does not represent ideal communications, or even GOOD communications. Things take time to propagate, if they propagate, and I'm sure that a lot of material expires before I ever see it, even as often as I read this stuff. Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe